SpeakUp with Mike Kaply and Jeffrey Kobal of the IBM Netscape for OS/2 Development Team from 09/20/99

<jeffk>  I don't understand what you mean by "looked".... you mean hung?
<Kerni>  yes
<Kerni>  I can't do anything
<Kerni>  I have to wait some MINUTES, until anything works again....
<jeffk>  Oh, OK. By "lookup problem", I thought you meant the internet-keyword thing.
<fonz>  lockup not lookup
<Kerni>  upsa :)
<jeffk>  OH! Lockup!
<Abraxas>  Mike .... you hanging out in here already?
<Kerni>  right... sorry
<Kerni>  hi Abraxas !
<madodel>  They been here all day. :-)
<ShadwWulf>  greetings all...
<jeffk>  I'd have to attribute that to either (a) Java.... or (b) writing out your History file. You can see if it is (b) by clearing out your History before closing. If it's (a), then that's a battle we've been fighting.
<ShadwWulf>  hey KoolAde
<KoolAde>  hey ShadwWulf whats up :)
<Kerni>  jeffk: I have Java turned off by default
<KoolAde>  yep picking up me a few dic. never know when I might have to type in Finnish or Dannish,
<Timka>  hello all!
<WarpHoss>  hello timka.
<jeffk>  If you have Java disabled, then it is probably the History writing. Check the size of your netscape.hst file in your user directory.
<Kerni>  Abraxas: did you forget to mail me your papers for warpstock europe ?
<fonz>  Abraxas, any news from steven..
<Abraxas>  Kerni didn't forget ... just haven't done it, yet
<Abraxas>  fonz ... nothing yet :-(
<Kerni>  Abraxas: k.
<jeffk>  You can cause pages to purge from your History more often by changing the value on the "Navigator" page in EditPreferences
<Kerni>  jeffk: already done that :)
<Kerni>  I will see, if its better now....
<Kerni>  thx
<jeffk>  No prob... :)
<Abraxas>  Kerni I think I'll just send you 100 Brochures (English) .... unless you want the text sent and you guys do the translation and printing .... I don't think there's enough time left
<TheSeer>  hmm.. i didn't make a reboot after installing the GA actually but i have a display-problem in GA
<TheSeer>  http://dhtml.seite.net/
<fonz>  ops, my netscape.hst is 1.261.568
<Kerni>  Abraxas: ok, english brochures should be fine
<jeffk>  That's pretty big, fonz... that'll cause some churning at close.
<jeffk>  TheSeer: That site looks good here... what are you seeing wrong?
<lmaxson>  Works fine for me also.
<Kerni>  jeffk: but why does that seem to be a /2 specific problem ?
<TheSeer>  jeffk: if you reload the page the textline scrolling from the bottom up to the middle of the screen leaves the part it moves over blank..
<TheSeer>  it redraws it later..
<TheSeer>  but the "moving" has a problem..
<TheSeer>  i might have to reboot first though..
<TheSeer>  didn't do that after installing the GA..
<TheSeer>  I just didn't have this problem before..
<jeffk>  As far as I can tell, that's working properly.... on Windows, the text that gets blanked out on OS/2 doesn't even get drawn until after the move.
<TheSeer>  well.. i don't wanna blame you for something.. but it worked "better" in B2 ;)
<jeffk>  File-system access is slow, Kerni....
<TheSeer>  for what i know the page first loads the top-part and THEN displays the bottom..
<Fuzy|ogic>  howdy all
<TheSeer>  but the GA starts displaying it right away..
<Kerni>  jeffk: well... one more reason for us to try hpfs386 :)
*  Fuzy|ogic is downloading GA still...
<TheSeer>  btw.. it's still somewhat slower then the Windoze-Version ;)
<Fuzy|ogic>  Is the the Plugin pack better???
<TheSeer>  anyway.. i'll reboot.. maybe that fixes the problems..
<TheSeer>  brb
<Fuzy|ogic>  Who is the IBM guy we are talking to???
<Fuzy|ogic>  Does drag and drop to aWget window work?
<jeffk>  There are two of us... Mike Kaply, and myself (Jeff Kobal)
<jeffk>  I doubt it.
<madodel>  any1 get an error trying to update the PIP? EPFIE234: Cannot create the 'Plug-In Pack^Installation Utility' object on the Workplace Shell.
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: pleased to meet you.
<Abraxas>  Fuzy|ogic !!! Hiya!!!
<jeffk>  Nice to meet you, too, Fuzy
<WarpHoss>  Smooth, installed in 1min 45 seconds. I like that.
<Fuzy|ogic>  Abraxas: Hi there! Long time no chat :]
<Abraxas>  Fuzy|ogic you coming to Atlanta?
<Fuzy|ogic>  jaffk: was that a doubt about the drag&drop question?
<Fuzy|ogic>  Abraxas: sure am! =]
<madodel>  Gotta reboot, BBIAB
<WarpHoss>  rebooting the beast be right back...
<Fuzy|ogic>  Got a plan ticket from Eugene, OR to Atlanta GA and back :>
<lmaxson>  The only thing that gave me a problem was the dictionary, which seems to be a DOS app.
<jeffk>  Fuzy: Yes, it was. Our drag interface works directly with the Workplace Shell, so other apps will probably not be valid drag targets from the browser.
<Kerni>  jeffk: what are you next working on netscape communicator ?
<Fuzy|ogic>  It's just a regular folder, though...
<Fuzy|ogic>  The program looks in that folder for jobs...
<jeffk>  Kerni: We're looking at what's going on with Mozilla, but there are no plans yet for what the "next communicator" will be.
<jeffk>  Fuzy: If it's a regular folder, it should work just fine.
<fonz>  s some mozilla-code in 4.61?
<jeffk>  Fonz: No.
<TheSeer>  damn..
<TheSeer>  my os/2 network-setup is f***d up ://
<Abraxas>  what's up with all these reboots ??
<lmaxson>  Not on this channel.
<lmaxson>  After install of GA Netscape.
<jeffk>  Fuzy: Unless it's in details-view. Details view gave us fits.
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: I have a question about writing plug-ins: Is it possible to write a plug in that will download files instead of comm/2's FTP/HTTP download doohicky? So if I hit a .zip file or somethng, a plug-in app will actually do the downloading?
<Fuzy|ogic>  details veiw gave fits... Gotcha, I'll keep it in icon veiw..
<Kerni>  are there any plans to make the macromedia flash plugin available for os/2 ? because its included in the others platform standard package
<jeffk>  Fuzy: I don't think it would be quite that easy... but we'll see if Mike has an idea on that when he gets back.
<Fuzy|ogic>  OK
<jeffk>  Kerni: We aren't working on porting plugins.... I have no information on that.
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: BTW, really appreciate you guys taking the time.
<jeffk>  Thanks!
<lmaxson>  I'll second that.
*  Kerni too
<jeffk>  Luckily, since we GA'ed today, we actually HAVE the time to take...
*  WarpHoss also.
<lmaxson>  Didn't you plan it that way?
*  KoolAde wants to THANK the NS Team for all they have Done
<Sector>  Looks like we are up to 4thing it...
<lmaxson>  What does that mean?
<jeffk>  Not exactly. Our plans were to have it available on Friday last week, but that didn't quite work out.
<lmaxson>  This is better.
<Fuzy|ogic>  I'de rather have it done right than done quickly....
<lmaxson>  I'd rather not have it conflict with bad news.
<lmaxson>  Friday was a dark day for OS/2.
<jeffk>  I assume you're referring to the Stardock statements.
<lmaxson>  Yes.
<jeffk>  I don't see that day as any different....
<Abraxas>  lmaxson I don't see it as "dark day" ... maybe "partly to mostly cloudy"
<jeffk>  That announcement didn't change a thing.
<lmaxson>  I'm being only slightly facetious.
<lmaxson>  Tongue in cheek.
<jeffk>  Oh, OK.... :)
<lmaxson>  The OS/2 community tends to overreact at times.
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: what are your opinions on a new client? (Not that I think one is essential yet)
<Abraxas>  lmaxson and speculate, and second-guess, and ........
<lmaxson>  Yes, a real mob.
*  Fuzy|ogic would just like to see something done about SIQ
<jeffk>  Fuzy: It would take a lot more work than people believe. And since one isn't essential yet, that's why one hasn't been produced.
<jeffk>  Nothing will ever be done about the Single Input Queue, Fuzy....
<Fuzy|ogic>  yet(?)
<lmaxson>  Nothing wrong with the SIQ.
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: bummer
<lmaxson>  Right your applications correctly.
<lmaxson>  I haven't had an SIQ failure in years.
<TheSeer>  lmaxson: that's the wrong answer..
<Fuzy|ogic>  I have an older OS/2 programming book that seems to think the SIQ would have gone away by ver3.0
<lmaxson>  Then let them say what they would replace it with.
<fonz>  are there newer ones, Fuzy?
<Abraxas>  * Abraxas is quite happy with the version of OS/2 he's currently running .....
<Fuzy|ogic>  I had a complete OS lock about an hour ago.. No mouse, couldn't even CTL+ALT+DEL....
<jeffk>  That wouldn't be because of the SIQ, Fuzy.
<Fuzy|ogic>  fonz, as new as Warp 3 anyway... I can't seem to get my hands on a copy of "The Art of..."
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: I didn't think it was...
<jeffk>  The problem is that people tend to attribute ALL system hangs to the SIQ, so it has a bad rap.
<jeffk>  With well-written applications, the SIQ works like a champ.
<Fuzy|ogic>  I'm not sure what a SIQ falure would look like, I have all my problems with apps that aren't Native or are Ported... Open32 leaves a bad taste in my mouth...
<jeffk>  The main problem with moving to a multiple-input-queue model are the applications that have been designed to use the SIQ.
<ShadwWulf>  no offence whatsoever intended but 85% of my system hangs come from NS4.04 borking(I have not tried 461-GA yet so it may not be a problem anymore)
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: Ahhh... Well, I have no complaints as long as my Native apps work...
<Fuzy|ogic>  Even my Java apps have been working very well with 1.1.8...
<lmaxson>  Fuzy, are looking for an Abrash book?
<jeffk>  As for Open32.... we did our best.
<lmaxson>  How does Lotus manage to get by with it?
<jeffk>  Because it was designed for them.
<lmaxson>  It doesn't work for anyone else?
<jeffk>  And they could code around the rest.
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: it DOES work... For the most part... Actually pretty incredible when you think about it.. I only 'preffer' NATIVE...
<KoolAde>  Hey Jim how are you
<lmaxson>  I see.
<jeffk>  Yes, it works for others.... but it was designed for them.
<fonz>  do we get a new open32 for SS 1.5
<lmaxson>  Does that portend sad times for WINE and ODIN?
<jeffk>  No. Open32 hasn't been touched since SS97
<Fuzy|ogic>  1-2-3 for OS/2 gives me gas...
<jeffk>  It means that WINE and ODIN have a lot of work to do.
<ShadwWulf>  jeffk: have you gotten around the problem of having to completely refreshing the page when the NS window is resized in 4.61GA, if not do you have plans for this in a future refesh of 461?
<lmaxson>  Makes VMware look all that much better.
<Fuzy|ogic>  As much as people like to bash IBM about OS/2, it's your team that has delivered on promises and your team alone...
<jeffk>  Shad: When you resize the window, the page has to be laid out to the new width of the window, so it must be completely refreshed.
<madodel>  lmaxson: not if VMware requires running NT or Linux
<ShadwWulf>  jeffk: I refer to it refreshing it to the point that it hits the network to redownload images and page code...
<lmaxson>  Mark, I'm setting the trap.
<jeffk>  Fuzy: Thanks, though I don't think that's quite fair to many of the other development teams here.
<lmaxson>  Don't you spring it too early.
<fonz>  www.freemware.org rulez...
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: I'm just as much to blame...
<jeffk>  Who are we "trapping" here?
<lmaxson>  Not you.
<lmaxson>  We happen to believe in running all the APIs native mode on a single system.
<jeffk>  Shad: As long as the page and stuff are in your cache, it shouldn't have to reload from the network.... unless you have it checking the validity "every time".
<KoolAde>  jeffk I just tried to install the plugin's and it found an old dir. I had save on a garabage drive. and thats where it wanted to put the new plugins in. It would not let me change dir. or drives or anything,
<ShadwWulf>  jeffk: ah
<jeffk>  Kool: I haven't tried installing the plugin pack myself... but I would assume you could choose to "delete" the old one... and then install the new one in a new place.
<KoolAde>  well that what I am in the process of doing right now , in fact I redownloaded the plugins and am strating completely from scratch
<WarpHoss>  Do I just put the plugins file in the plugins dir and run it?
<mandie>  g'evening ;)
<WarpHoss>  hola mandie!
<Fuzy|ogic>  mandie: HI!
<mandie>  Warphoss!!
<mandie>  Fuzy!!! ltns :)
<Zavar>  Does 4.61 have to be installed using Feature Install?
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: will any of your team be at Warpstock?
<mandie>  good timing on the new release of comm/2 :)
<Sector>  mandi mandie mandie
<jeffk>  Zavar: No. It has its own installation program.
<Fuzy|ogic>  mandie: no lie :>
<mandie>  Sec Tor :)
<mandie>  wow, our guests are early :)
<ShadwWulf>  hey JudyMc...8')
<Fuzy|ogic>  mandie: yep, and been answering questions very quickly too...
<JudyMc>  ahh, comm/2 is frozen on the d/l of the new one :*
<Fuzy|ogic>  JudyMc: I used Wget.. :/
<JudyMc>  ftp address?
<Fuzy|ogic>  where the hell is Longstaff?!?!?
<JudyMc>  I want the 128 version
<lmaxson>  Go to Software Choice.
<fonz>  good night all, i'll read the transcript tomorrow...
<Abraxas>  * Abraxas is downloading the 128 bit version as we type :-)
<Fuzy|ogic>  Judymc: I got it from ShadwWulf's mirror... Holdon...
<JudyMc>  already did..I was in the process of d/l when it froze so I /k it
*  Projects is getting the 128bit version from software choice right now
*  Sector is also getting the 128bit version (with WebExplorer)
<jeffk>  Fuzy: That's still being negotiated.... ;)
<Fuzy|ogic>  ftp://ftp.digitalrapids.com/pub/mirrors/netscape/comm46xr.exe
<Abraxas>  Sector just gotta be different, don't you :-)))))
<Sector>  Of course
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: show up and I'll bye the beer!
<Fuzy|ogic>  buy
<Fuzy|ogic>  d/l done, time for the moment of truth....
<JudyMc>  fuzy: and I'll buy the second! :)
<Abraxas>  jeffk Just curios ... has the current administration's (Clinton) announcement of a relaxation of Export Controls on software capable of Strong Encryption affected IBM's policies, yet (in regards to Netscape's 128 bit version)?
<Abraxas>  And I'll help him drink them :-)))
<jeffk>  Abra: There has been some consternation about that, but I don't know what affect it will have.
<jeffk>  Fuzy: Make it a soda and you've got a deal.
<lmaxson>  Consternation instead of a sigh of relief?
<dave>  Hi all
<Fuzy|ogic>  jeffk: you don't drink beer?
<lmaxson>  Hi, dave.
<Fuzy|ogic>  What kind of programmer are you? :)
*  JudyMc is a coke classic drinker all the way!
<JudyMc>  a sober one!
<lmaxson>  The scoug representatives are here.
<dave>  hows things 1maxson
<jeffk>  Fuzy: No, I don't.
<Fuzy|ogic>  hehehe
<jeffk>  Judy: exactly!
<lmaxson>  fine, dave.
<Fuzy|ogic>  fair enough..
<Fuzy|ogic>  deal
<jeffk>  Judy: Though I don't care for Coke either.
<JudyMc>  and remembers his code in the morning :)
<JudyMc>  bah! :)
<Fuzy|ogic>  I'll smuggle a green apple Jones' soda out there for you...
<WarpHoss>  Team Netscape> I have the install screen for pluginpak here and it says files agre going to X:\N461 and X:\MMOS2 \\ is this correct? I would have thought they would go into X:\NS461\program\plugins ....
<lmaxson>  Get WarpHoss to send him some Wup Ass.
<jeffk>  Sounds interesting.
<JudyMc>  do I need to uninstall prev version of netscape and will I need to reboot?
<JudyMc>  just full of questions :)
<lmaxson>  No. Yes.
<JudyMc>  ok
<Fuzy|ogic>  Jones' soda is owned by some extreme sports enthusiasts in Portland, OR...
<Fuzy|ogic>  They are fun guys and make good soda..
<pspmikek>  PP question: Take the default. - it figures out PROGRAM\PLUGINS during the install
<os2-007>  Yes. No.
<eTronik>  gNight everybody !
<os2-007>  or maybe
<WarpHoss>  Thanx.
<Fuzy|ogic>  And the kickboxer chick is HOT!
<JudyMc>  is there a new plugin this time also?
<lmaxson>  You don't need to uninstall 4.04.
<JudyMc>  plugin pak?
<lmaxson>  You need to reboot.
<eTronik>  is the new NS/2 the GA of 4.5 ?
<Fuzy|ogic>  gotta reboot for install.... brb
<Projects>  you don't need to reboot if it's anything like the last drop... I didn't last time, and it all worked just fine.
<jeffk>  Fuzy: What flavor might that be?
<WarpHoss>  pluginpak says u gotta reboot.. so did the GA install.
<lmaxson>  Follow directions.
<dave>  how about Vernors! ever here of it?
<lmaxson>  I sure hope we get through all this in time for the speakup.
<JudyMc>  yes, Vernors!!!
<lmaxson>  Real ginger.
<JudyMc>  I used to have my parents bring it to me when I lived in MA
<Projects>  yup... says you do, but it ran fine for me without the reboot
<jeffk>  Heard of Vernors, yes.... fizzy stuff
<MADvirc>  By then there will be no questions to ask
<eTronik>  whats the news on the New NS/2 ??
<lmaxson>  Great ginger ale.
<lmaxson>  Used to get high on the bubbles.
<JudyMc>  Boston Cooler :)
<dave>  yes, great stuff at one time, aged in oak for four months
<jeffk>  Netscape Communicator 4.61 for OS/2 is generally available as of today!
<JudyMc>  Swanee, how I love ya, how I love ya... :)
<os2-007>  hi Swanee ;)
<Swanee>  Hi JudyMc & os2-007!
<dave>  I'm just downloading 4.6.1, any pitfalls to watch out for?
<WarpHoss>  hola swanee
<lmaxson>  dave, none.
<Swanee>  Hey WarpHoss, Great singing voice JudyMc
<Swanee>  :-)
<eTronik>  jeffk: you already have it installed ?? any oerformance diffr ??
<dave>  thanks
<JudyMc>  Swanee: :)
<Swanee>  hehe
<JudyMc>  eTronik: now what would you expect one of the programmers to say...no, it's slower
<Swanee>  I'm cooking! among other things... :-)
<eTronik>  Man, I can't connect two OS/2 PC to eachother, any tips anyone ??
<jeffk>  eT: Yes, I have it installed... but I think I'll leave the comparative analyses up to everyone else.
<JudyMc>  eTronik: what are you using to connect? hub? crossover cable?
<eTronik>  JudyMc: he's one of the develope's !? :-)
<JudyMc>  uh huh :)
<eTronik>  JudyMc: plain, old-fashioned BNC cables
*  KoolAde is just curios where am I suppose to stick all the dic. that I download. :)
<eTronik>  JudyMc: so, should I save the more diff questions for later huh ??
<eTronik>  JudyMc: I meant , the tougher ones :-)
<lmaxson>  eTronik, save them for the scoug help desk at 7pm on #scoug.
<JudyMc>  eTronik: yes, we can discuss it after our guests leave...or we can go into #scougs help channel after our session
<JudyMc>  lmaxson :)
<lmaxson>  Just a little wallflower.
<Swanee>  jeffk: I installed it a bit ago but haven't rebooted yet. Just restarted because of this meeting. :-)
<eTronik>  JudyMc: I'd appreciate,since I'd like to have this sorted out today :-)
<lmaxson>  Waiting for the speakup to begin.
<eTronik>  JudyMc: BUt the though questions I was mentioning was for the development team of NS/2
*  KoolAde thinks that the finial load is not as long as the previous version still a little hickup though on final loading
*  MADvirc thought it already did. ;-)
<WarpHoss>  brb.
<JudyMc>  etronik: oops..misunderstood...give us a second and the session will "officially" begin and we'll intro our guests
<eTronik>  JudyMc: grrreat !
<JudyMc>  :)
<JudyMc>  and make the questions tough not through :)
<JudyMc>  or though :)
<eTronik>  oops, eheh
<jeffk>  or thorough?
<eTronik>  I always get in trouble with those two words
<JudyMc>  I want to install, but I don't want to reboot during the session :(
<jeffk>  trough?
<JudyMc>  eTronik: could be worse :)
<JudyMc>  that a pigs plate :)
<lmaxson>  Then try projects method. Don't reboot.
<JudyMc>  HA! I know that problems that projects has :)
<lmaxson>  Projects?
<lmaxson>  Que probleme?
<lmaxson>  Getting close to the magic hour.
<Fuzy|ogic>  installed... is the faster refresh my imagination?
<lmaxson>  Nice turn out.
<JudyMc>  before I go back to the site...is there a new plugin pak also?
<lmaxson>  yes.
<JudyMc>  Fuzy: hopefully not :)
<KoolAde>  I tried that and then I had all kinds of problems with OD , I
<JudyMc>  ok :(
<KoolAde>  JudyMc yes there is and its stated so on the SoftWare Page ;)
<Gene>  Is the new NS461 GA an open d/l?
<KoolAde>  started having lockup on tring to open a drive
<JudyMc>  ok, guess I should pay attention :(
<TheSeer>  Gene: Yes
<lmaxson>  Gene, yes.
<Gene>  Thanks all.
<Abraxas>  Well, then :-)
<lmaxson>  Somebody had to answer.
<Abraxas>  It's now 8:00PM EDT, and the Speakup is scheduled to start
<Fuzy|ogic>  OK, system and resource speaking, how is the GA an improvement?
<JudyMc>  VOICE would like to welcome our guests, Mike Kaply and Jeffery Kobal
<Abraxas>  Of course, we've been going full blast for over an hour, now
<JudyMc>  Mike, would you like to start and tell us a bit about your role in comm/2 developement?
<TheSeer>  damnit..
<lmaxson>  belay that, matey.
<TheSeer>  "Please refer to your OS/2 documentation for information on
<TheSeer>  how to report suspected program defects. "
<TheSeer>  now this a very helpfull statement..
<JudyMc>  shhh
<pspmikek>  I am the technical lead on the project
<pspmikek>  Together, though, me and Jeff coordinate the work effort on the browser as well as fixing lots of stuff :)
<pspmikek>  I have been involved with NS on OS/2 since 2.02
<JudyMc>  good track record :)
<Projects>  what size is the plug-in pack supposed to be?
<JudyMc>  1824992
*  os2-007 has set away! (auto away after idling [15 min]) [Log:ON] .gz.
<Projects>  damn... off to d/l it again then
<pspmikek>  that's all I have :)
<JudyMc>  exactly what does the technical lead do?
<JudyMc>  do you have a team other than Jeff?
<pspmikek>  Basically coordinate the efforts of people - what they work on, what deefects to fix, etc.
<jeffk>  In the browser, click on HelpAbout Communicator. Then click on the big Netscape "N" logo. That'll show you the "team"....
<eTronik>  any sort of technical ldesign decicion making ?
<JudyMc>  Jeff: any input before we open the floor for questions?
<MerlinOS2>  is there a recommended order for installing 4.61 jdk 1.18 and fp11??
<MADvirc>  Cool
<Fuzy|ogic>  wow, big team...
<pspmikek>  Oh yeah, technical decision making and everything. Most of that stuff is done as a team though, with mine and Jeff's opinion being much more important than others :) :)
<os2-007>  are they going to bring back up http://people.netscape.com/law/os2nav/index.html Welcome to the Unofficial Home Page for the OS/2 Netscape Navigator site or a simular one, i know they have a comm/2 bug web site ????
<jeffk>  Basically, Mike has many years of background with Netscape code. I joined the team for 4.04 with my background in OS/2 Presentation Manager and porting (Open32).
<pspmikek>  Bill Law worked on the project when we were more closely involved with Netscape. That page is his.
<pspmikek>  We are working on an official release notes page which will be up tomorrow...
<JudyMc>  great!
<pspmikek>  it will have things like new preferences and other hints and tips
<MADvirc>  Off to the races, you guys have to check this out
<os2-007>  pspmikek: ahhh do you have an url for it please ? :)
<pspmikek>  You will be able to select HelpRelease notes and then click on the link for release notes
<JudyMc>  url?
<MADvirc>  about:authors
<eTronik>  the list of features is impressive !!
<KoolAde>  eTronik where did you get list of features
<eTronik>  KoolAde: warpcast !
<JudyMc>  probably in the "readme" :)
<jeffk>  Ah, you found that little "easter egg", MADv?
<MADvirc>  :-)
<jeffk>  I figured somebody would after I pointed out that authors page.
<eTronik>  pspmikek: I'd like to why NS does not appear to me multi-threaded...
<pspmikek>  The main page from release notes will have a good list of features
<MADvirc>  Only the Core Team races?
<jeffk>  Yup.
<eTronik>  pspmikek: basically when NS is rendering somwthing... just about everything else in the system stops cold dead !
<pspmikek>  Some pieces of the browser are multithreaded. The main reason it does not "appear" multi-threaded is because actual displaying of the page is not multi-threaded...
<jeffk>  That's the team of developers that worked directly on the product.
<pspmikek>  because we ported the Windows code, we did not have as much flexibility as we wanted in adding multiple threads.
<eTronik>  is that a difficult fix ??
<Fuzy|ogic>  what easter egg?
<jeffk>  Yes. Netscape's code was designed for a single-threaded environment.
<eTronik>  :-(
<jeffk>  On the about:authors page, Fuzy....
<eTronik>  what about the open source effort, will it take that into account ?
<MADvirc>  Go to about:authors and click on the page.
<Fuzy|ogic>  very cool!
<jeffk>  :)
<pspmikek>  Netscape is working to make their open source browsers more multi-threaded....
<pspmikek>  There is an effort being done (not by IBM) to port the open source browser to OS/2. That's all I can say
<KoolAde>  thats it make a betting game out of NS
<eTronik>  I'll have to say, I will definitely appreciate the different languages now available under spelling !! :-) now I will be able to spell both English and Portuguese messages, cool ! :-)
<WarpHoss>  nifty ....
<Gene>  Has the initial load time been reduced in GA? I haven't used Beta II but Beta I seemed long. Once loaded, it was fairly speedy.
*  Projects has little faith in the dictionaries... after all, americans can't speel :-)
<jeffk>  Yes, the initial load time has improved.
<jeffk>  We did some page-tuning and packing that should reduce the startup time.
<eTronik>  pspmikek: what were major hurdles in getting this version out ?? what are the most difficult aspects of such an endeavor ?
<MADvirc>  Will IBM continue to work on Comm/2 future releases?
<pspmikek>  The major hurdles this time were printing and bidirectional support...
<KoolAde>  pspmikek I have found something a little strange I follow a couple baseball games I cant get in my area and on the live actions page it usally shows more stuff but tonight after switching to the GA only partial page is showing
<Gene>  If one wants to use just the browser itself without other capabilities, is it possible to load just the browser or is it a package deal?
<TheSeer>  btw.. besides me bashing all the time.. the 4.61-GA-code is FASTER in normal HTML then any other os/2-version before..
<pspmikek>  We put a special emphasis on print testing, including a dedicated print test team.
<TheSeer>  it now RUNS in local-network :)
<pspmikek>  Bidi was tricky because we coordinated a work effort between US, Israel and Egypt
<pspmikek>  It is all a package deal
<os2-007>  what is the url to d/l the ga version ???
<jeffk>  BiDi = Bi-directional support for languages that read right to left.
<Sector>  Does it still need to reload a page to print it?
<pspmikek>  heh heh - thanks jeff :)
<JudyMc>  question: no addition in the libpath for x:\netscape\java11 ?
<eTronik>  what is that Bidi support ?? and how do you manage work among hose teams (high level description :-)
<MADvirc>  It is only on Software CHoice for now
<eTronik>  oops forget my question
<os2-007>  ok thanks
<Sector>  http://service.boulder.ibm.com/asd-bin/doc/en_us/catalog.htm
<JudyMc>  hmm..
<Projects>  Sector: reload? I never had that here... always printed just fine.
<An>  Why don't IBM release a stand alone Navigator?
<pspmikek>  If the reload printing is a serious problem, you can try using the icon in the lower left to go offline to print and then click it when done printing
<rivr>  have you tested it with Java 1.1.8?
<eTronik>  nice tip
<Sector>  Whenever I've printed in 4.04 it's always reloaded the page first then printed.
<JudyMc>  brb
<jeffk>  Because Communicator was designed to be an integrated application. It would have taken a lot of time and effort to create a Navigator-only version, and it wouldn't have gained that much in space.
<Mr-Data>  when I try to print something that came from a "POST", ie a response page to a form, I get a print that says the page has expired... I think that's the "Reload to print problem" at it's worst...
<eTronik>  does it require any fixpack ??
<Mr-Data>  makes it impossible to print out receipts from purchases
<pspmikek>  Do you have your cache turned off?
<jeffk>  We are requiring the Y2K fixpacks for the install of NC/2 4.61
<CroMagnon>  What is special about IBM's License Agreement page? I can't see the agreement, only the IBM banner at the top. Any ideas? TIA
<Mr-Data>  pspmikek: either way, if it's on or off, it still says the same thing
<Sector>  memory cache is enabled here
<pspmikek>  What about disk cache?
<Mr-Data>  I don't use a disk cache, but I have an 8 meg memory cache
<Mr-Data>  I use squid for my disk cache.. (a caching proxy)
<eTronik>  How much code change is involved in the porting from Win32 version into OS/2 ??
<pspmikek>  Try using some disk cache and see if the print problems go away
<Mr-Data>  and I can turn that on or turn it off, and I still get the "page has expired"
<pspmikek>  Intresting
<pspmikek>  Try the offline trick I mentioned above
<pspmikek>  Which license agreement page?
<Mr-Data>  I haven't tried anything with the gamma yet... this is a problem I saw with the Beta, and was just wondering if it was fixed...
<CroMagnon>  the one you go through to download anything from SoftwareChoice page
<jeffk>  eT: There is a lot of code added to allow the Windows code to run on OS/2.... we do what we can to avoid directly changing the Netscape code, but there is some of that too....
<TheSeer>  CroMagnon: hit reload
<eTronik>  whats the best way to install te GA version without loosing all the message base already in use ?? (I have the Beta on a diff directory, but pointing to the original 4.04 mail directory) how should we proceed ??
<MerlinOS2>  have you run the GA thru a test suite say like browsertune??
<CroMagnon>  no - the page seems to load all the data but only the banner can be seen the rest of the page is blank VIEW|PAGE SOURCE looks like it downloaded the agreement text
<jeffk>  Installing the 4.61 version should migrate over all of your user setting, and use those old directories as well.
<eTronik>  jeffk: but then I still keep all the old NS 4.04 files gathering dust no ??
<Projects>  damn... I just can't get a full download of the pip :(
<jeffk>  eT: No, you can uninstall the old versions; they should not remove the configuration files.
<eTronik>  oh, good !
<DaveW>  speakin of cache, privacy is increasingly of interest. Any thought of simplifying the cache clearing, like a single button on the button bar to clear all the cache, history , etc?
<os2-007>  this ga is 128 bit encrypt ???
<CroMagnon>  I have not been able to download anything from IBM since 4.61b1. I get to the agreement page and it is basically blank. No way to continue. Wuz zup!
<Projects>  DaveW: I just use a .cmd file that clears it all out after I'm done.
<pspmikek>  I don't see any problems with the license agreement
<pspmikek>  You can use javascript/java to modify preferences
<DaveW>  but projects is smarter than the avg user...
<pspmikek>  You could probably write an applet that cleared the cache. Netscape does it by setting it to 0 and then setting it back
<Projects>  wanna bet? :)
<CroMagnon>  no one does - it's just me - I was hoping for some clues as to what to check to fix it.
<eTronik>  another thing, I have tried to read news with Collabra (is this the right name ??) but the handling of offline messages is kinda almost awfull :-) has that been improved ??
<Projects>  DaveW: try this:
<pspmikek>  Are you referring to 4.04 or previous betas?
<Projects>  cd e:\internet\netscape\cache
<Projects>  del *.* nul:
<Projects>  d:
<Projects>  cd d:\tcpip\tmp
<Projects>  del *.* nul:
<eTronik>  pspmikek: I am referring to the first beta of 4.6
<eTronik>  pspmikek: I'll try to explain...
<pspmikek>  Probably no need to - it should work the same. Netscape's offline reading is kind of klunky, I agree
<CroMagnon>  Thanks 4 the hard werk
<Swanee>  DaveW brings to mind a good question. Privacy wise, is clearing the cache dir and deleting netscape.hst enough to clear any traces of your whereabouts? (I'm doing a security type program and some of this will be part of it.)
<eTronik>  pspmikek: It does not allow (or I haven't ound a way) to mark while offline the articles I wish to load,
<DaveW>  _I_ know how to clear mem and disk caches, but several steps. Many users aren't as willing to do that. I don't know how to clear the history in the url line. A one-button clear would set us above the "other" versions.
<Projects>  DaveW: you'll need a file called "yes" which only contains a Y
<DaveW>  i saw that
<Projects>  DaveW: ah... I get it now
<pspmikek>  you can type del /n to prevent the message - type del /?
<DaveW>  but if we need these convoluted scripts, with "y" files, seems like the developers might be able to give us a hand
<eTronik>  pspmikek: any plans to improve that aspect of offline reading ?? I basically gave up on newsgroup reading using NS
<pspmikek>  We don't have any plans specifically to improve that and I do not know if Netscape does
<eTronik>  oh another very important point !! :-)
<mandie>  it does seem quite a bit snappier!
<eTronik>  pspmikek: why can't I use two instances of NS, each with its own profile ??
<Projects>  pspmikek: ah, thanks. I was using the "yes" file as a leftover from my dos days :)
<eTronik>  pspmikek: reading mail from two different account becomes very very frustrating...
<pspmikek>  Netscape acts as a DDE client and as such there can only be one to have that conversation...
<eTronik>  conversation with whom ?
<pspmikek>  it is the way they designed it and we kept that design ...
<jeffk>  With other applications
<pspmikek>  things like MR2/ICE, PMMAIL, Lotus Notes - any app that shows URLs by clicking on a link
<eTronik>  oh
<pspmikek>  We also have a lot of corporate customers that use the DDE facility to do corporate applications
<eTronik>  I see
<pspmikek>  It is unfortunate that Netscape did not support multiple POP servers.
<eTronik>  but if I have two mail accounts, basically I have to read one at a time no ??
<DaveW>  ... or exchange
<mandie>  nice job guys!!!
<jeffk>  Thanks, mandie...
<mandie>  is there ANY reason that one would want to use ns202 any longer?
*  Projects grumbles something about slow downloads :(
<DaveW>  202 launches faster
<mandie>  big woop :)
<Sector>  Well, at least the PIP 1.7meg file on a 28.8k connection isn't the 43 minutes the page claims
<KoolAde>  LOL
<Projects>  Sector: no, it's 3 hours :)
<pspmikek>  With the drag and drop fixed, I can't think of anything :)
<eTronik>  How does it feel for Netscape to have the whole of the OS/2 user base ??
<Sector>  8 minutes on a T1...
<Sector>  Well, not quite there are a few other browsers around
<eTronik>  how is the OS/2 user base regarded by Netscape in general ??
<DaveW>  "OS who?"
<pspmikek>  IBM is responsible for the development of this product, not Netscape
<JimLarson>  joel1 found a page that crashed 4.61 beta so I tried it in 2.02 and it worked ... one reason for keeping 2.02 around for awhile
<mandie>  OSTWO :)
<pspmikek>  And the page is....
<mandie>  url?
<Projects>  pspmikek: one thing I really miss from WebEx is the animations... will that feature ever be included with NS?
<KoolAde>  I'll say it loads much faster now
<Mr-Data>  hmm... brb, gotta reboot for my new metscape (YEAH!)
<jeffk>  Jim: Did it crash in Java?
<mandie>  I honestly think each system is different
<JimLarson>  hold on ... let me go check in 2.02 on another machine
<mandie>  ok
<DaveW>  what I miss from Web Explorer is having some built in graphics no one else had
<JimLarson>  no ... it crashed on some sort of plugin that it expected or somethine like that
<JimLarson>  bbias
<mandie>  I developed a page with heavy java and worked great for some OS/2 users and others were unable to even see the page
<eTronik>  pspmikek: I know IBM does thi version, but how is OS/2 perceived by Netscape ?
<DaveW>  I had tags that had alt's that said if you had OS2 you could see this
<eTronik>  like.... dead ?
<mandie>  does it matter? as long as we have our OS/2 team developing for US :)
<pspmikek>  eTronik: I really don't have an answer for that question. sorry.
<eTronik>  oh no prob :-)
<DaveW>  i suspect their entire field of view is filled with IE
<mandie>  pspmikek: what's next on your agenda for Comm/2?
<pspmikek>  You can customize your own animation if you want, but the ability to have a web page customize it was a WebEx only extension
<KoolAde>  would someone go see if this page shows anything other than blank please http://www.os2ss.com/warpcast/wc4113.html
<mandie>  and could get very annoying :)
<eTronik>  psp: so basically you are handed the netscape code, you you have to deal with it i order to get a working product right ?? what kind of support do they provide you ?
<Projects>  psmpikek: how?
<mandie>  KoolAde: came right up
<WarpHoss>  KoolAde werks here.
<KoolAde>  not here :(
<mandie>  Wanda 1.00 rated 3rd buggiest Program of the year :()
<pspmikek>  Can't talk about future stuff...you know that :)
<Fuzy|ogic>  I see it..
<mandie>  system configuration dependent
<Swanee>  KoolAde: Worked OK here
<JimLarson>  it was www.citicorp.com ... but it looks like citicorp fixed the page because it loads OK now in 4.61 and 2.02
<mandie>  that's a clean html code..no java or anything..you shouldn't have a problem
<KoolAde>  I am getting several pages that are'nt completely loading like that :(
<jeffk>  eT: That's basically it. We get minimal support from them, aside from what they've changed and why they changed it in each new release.
<os2-007>  wanda came out with a lot of bug fixes today
<DaveW>  is the source available for the Comm/2 builds?
<jeffk>  No.
<os2-007>  Wanda 1.04 is released. Many bugs fixed! http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/CIP/thielen/wanda/
<Swanee>  DaveW brought to mind a good question. Privacy wise, is clearing the cache dir and deleting netscape.hst enough to clear any traces of your whereabouts? (I'm doing a security type program and some of this will be part of it.)
<Gene>  KoolAde, no problem here either [Beta I]
<mandie>  JimLarson: Joel1 had problems with that page also, and I could load it without any problems
<KoolAde>  JimLarson I never had a problem loading that page , thats the page i took mandie too, because it reported we had NS128 when we did'nt
<Swanee>  I may have just missed the answer to this
<pspmikek>  in prefs.js - user_pref("toolbar.logo.win_large_file","filename");
<jeffk>  Swanee: There are also URLs in your prefs.js file
<pspmikek>  in prefs.js - user_pref("toolbar.logo.win_small_file","filename");
<DaveW>  there's tracks all over the place, that's why we NEED a one-button clear
<Swanee>  Thanks jeffk I'll look into that also. :-)
<Gene>  jeffk, did I understand correctly that Beta xxx does *not* have to be scrapped to load GA?
<DaveW>  t'would set Comm/2 ahead of the pack
<pspmikek>  user_pref("toolbar.logo.frames", num_frames )
<eTronik>  pspmikek: suppose you have some free time, do you plan on enhancing NS/2 with OS/2 specific features ??
<jeffk>  Yes, it does, Gene.... you either need to delete it and re-install the GA (which I recommend), or "update" the beta with the GA level.
<pspmikek>  large is 60x(60*num_frames) for image size
<jeffk>  eT: There are no plans to further enhance this version of the browser.
<eTronik>  jeff: yet :-)
<eTronik>  i hope
<DaveW>  making installs that complicated drives users away
<eTronik>  well I understand, as long as it runs all the thin client apps for the big guys ! right ?
<jeffk>  Let's not get too political now....
*  KoolAde is now going to try the uninstall an reinstall method casue he getting incomplete pages on load :(
<jeffk>  We're developers.... we don't make any "real" decisions.
<mandie>  the important thing, is we got a new version...
<eTronik>  :)
<jeffk>  Dave: How is that complicated? You either delete and re-install, or update the previous install.
<mandie>  why is there no reference in the config.sys to comm/2 and java?
<Projects>  some of us got... I'm still getting...
<Swanee>  That's why we like you Jeff Great job by the way. GA is running well here. :-)
<mandie>  Swanee: it is sweet :)
<eTronik>  jeff: you're not just developers ! you are MUCH LOVED developers !! :-))
*  mandie is happy once again :)
<DaveW>  but you didn't recommend the update. Also, the user shouldn't have to decide.
<jeffk>  mandie: The Netscape/Program directory should be in your paths....
<dave>  I just downloaded, and installed the GA. it asked if I wanted to update the current ver. yes, easy
<Swanee>  Personally, I thought the install was a snap.
<jeffk>  DaveW: Because a delete and re-install is cleaner, obviously.... the "update" is quicker.
<mandie>  jeff: ok, it is...thought it would point directly to the java subdir...ok, thx :)
<Swanee>  brb
<jeffk>  mandie: No, the java subdirectory is queried dynamically from the INI file
<mandie>  ah, ok
<eTronik>  if I have two diff mail directores , how can I merge them ?? even manually ?
<DaveW>  "quick" is less important than "easy" to most users
<JimLarson>  Since Comm/2 is a suite ... browser, e-mail, news, composer ... why not put in an httpd server (they don't seem to be that big or complicated) so we could write and share rexx scripts for cgi ... maybe that would be a security hassle.
<jeffk>  DaveW: That's why many products, including OS/2 itself, has a "Basic" and "Advanced" path.
<WarpHoss>  jeffk> is this gonna fix my sys 3175 problems ie : X:\NETSCAPE\NETSCAPE.EXE c0000005 \\\
<jeffk>  WarpH: I don't know.... depend on why you're getting them.
<DaveW>  i think you're overestimating the users. "Easy install" asks way too many questions
<eTronik>  is it dangerous to share the same mail directory between the OS/2 version and the Win32 version of Netscape ??
<mandie>  DaveW: do you think there are many os2 users that select the "Easy Install"?
<jeffk>  DaveW: On the whole, I think our users are more often underestimated than overestimated... ;)
<mandie>  jeffk: I agree
<pspmikek>  You should be able to share mail directories with Win32 in GA...
<CroMagnon>  off the subject
<WarpHoss>  jeffk> If this release does not cure those where do I go for assistance?
<Projects>  mandie: nah... we always look for the "most complicated install" button :-)
<mandie>  WarpHoss: #scoug :)
<pspmikek>  The only weird part is Windows32 has to be setup first and in preferences, you need to point your templates folder to TEMPLA~1 which is the Windows templates folder.
<pspmikek>  Unsent messages should work OK now.
<mandie>  Projects: bingo! we want choice and "Advanced" gives us that :)
<jeffk>  WarpH: This product will be handled by Service just like 4.04.... I wouldn't be surprised to see a fixpack in the not-too-distant future (but not too soon either, I hope).
<Projects>  mandie: yup :)
<eTronik>  oh ! ok
<Mr-Data>  pspmikek: ok, I'm back... did I hear someone say that DND was fixed? I still can't DND to anything except the desktop.
<pspmikek>  with GA?
<pspmikek>  or beta2
<Mr-Data>  GA
<eTronik>  DND ?
<Mr-Data>  Drag N Drop
<jeffk>  (Drag/drop)
<Mr-Data>  (I think it's GA.. is there a way to tell? the install may have failed for some reason.
<CroMagnon>  have you seen web links dying in the browser in the GA?
<Projects>  department of national defense
*  eTronik taps onhis forehead... of course !! :-)
<pspmikek>  type about:bldlevel and read the date
<Projects>  oh, that DnD :)
<mandie>  OT: did they pull the latest fix for java 118/
<jeffk>  The AboutCommunicator screen should show a 990915 date in the titlebar for the US GA version.
<mandie>  /=?
<Mr-Data>  Netscape Communicator 4.6 was created on 16 Sep 1999 at 18:34:08: Support for 128 bit encryption and mail encryption.
<Mr-Data>  :(
<jeffk>  MrD: Are you running any desktop-enhancer applications?
<pspmikek>  in your NETSCAPE\PROGRAM directory, what is the size and date of NS46DRAG.DLL?
<eTronik>  what is needed for roaming access capability ??
<mandie>  scratch that
<pspmikek>  Any web server that supports HTTP post will allow roaming to work
<mandie>  seems that some pages only partially load
<CroMagnon>  Mike: Have you seen web links dying in the browser in the GA?
<KoolAde>  well My NS was not working haveing deleted the current version I have to reboot
<pspmikek>  As in crashing when you click on a link?
<Mr-Data>  jeffk: umm.. npswps and x-file
<eTronik>  pspmikek: from looking at Netscape code ? and hipothetically of course what would you choose to improve ??
<CroMagnon>  just not responding to the mouse cursor - resort to Links menu
<jeffk>  Would there be any way you could disable those and see if they are interfering with our drag/drop, MrD?
<Gene>  mandie - OT - Is there a problem with JAVA 118 before I screw up and install it?
<Mr-Data>  jeffk: sure, hold one
<pspmikek>  I have seen that problem on the Windows version and occasionally on OS/2. We have never been able to get a recreation scenario. We believe it is an overall Netscape problem.
<JimLarson>  I noticed a problem in 4.61 just the other day and am wondering if it is fixed? Clicking down thru subdirectories ... file:///c:/ ... then click on a subdiretory, then a subdirectory ...
<pspmikek>  etronik: Improve...that's tough. probably their disregard for double byte systems :)
<pspmikek>  3
<jeffk>  MrD: You'd have to restart the browser after disabling them.
<pspmikek>  etronik: like japanese, chinese, etc.
<eTronik>  pspmikek: yup! and what feature would you like (if you could or had the time) to imlement or add into NS in order to fully exploit OS/2 ??
<pspmikek>  probably real WPS drag drop. We keep trying to figure out if we can make it work, but too many browser interactions depend on things that are...
<eTronik>  pspmikek: how tough is it to implement the NS rendering engine in a DLL like WebExplorer was, where anybosy could use it in their apps ??
<pspmikek>  impossible to do with OS/2 drag drop like showing windows, activating windows, etc.
<pspmikek>  etronik: very tough. Netscape is doing that with their NGLayout engine which is a part of Mozilla. It required a ground up effort.
<MerlinOS2>  how bout something like zmodem crash recovery
<Glenn>  hi folks I'm getting a epfie609 a data error while attempting to unpack a file... while opening the pip30 plug in pack for today's Netscape 4.61 release
<CroMagnon>  how about an option to call your favorite FTP program?
<eTronik>  NGLayuot is being developed also for OS/2 right ?? although somewhat behinf te other versions I believe...
<pspmikek>  etronik: there is a nonIBM OS/2 team that is porting mozilla to OS/2. this includes nglayout
<pspmikek>  glenn: sounds like a corrupt download
<mandie>  Glenn: do you have a previous aborted install?
<jeffk>  About time to start wrapping this up?
<eTronik>  pspmikek: what aspects of your work within the context of this particular project do you find most pleasing and most displeasing ?? :-)
<Glenn>  I've downloaded it twice now third time right now?
<eTronik>  jeffk: thats for you too ! .-)
<Glenn>  Not with the maian 4.61 or the beta's plugin pack
<pspmikek>  eTronik: This sounds like a job interview :)
<eTronik>  eeh
<mandie>  lol
<pspmikek>  eTronik: well everything's great except having to work with jeff :)
<Gene>  lol
<MADvirc>  hehehe
<eTronik>  I like to know everything ! not just the tech details :-)
<jeffk>  eT: I enjoy working on something that I know people will see and enjoy using. The displeasing part is usually the contraints within which we have to work.
<pspmikek>  etronik: actually one of the things we all enjoy about this project is that it is actually used by a lot of people and a very necessary part of OS/2.
<Swanee>  pspmikek: I think you have an inside track on the job :-)
<mandie>  VOICE would like to thank our Mike and Jeff for the great job they're doing in providing support to the OS/2 community!!
<Gene>  Thank you gentlemen! You've don yeoman work. Looking forward to more as the power permit.
<lmaxson>  Yes.
<mandie>  and thanks for being our guests tonight
<mandie>  don't know how "our" got in there :)
<lmaxson>  It was quite good.
<mandie>  also.......
<gsahca>  Thank you fellows for your support and work on this GA.
<eTronik>  Kudos for both !! many many many many many Congrats !! :-)
<jeffk>  Thanks everyone.... it's been fun! I hope the GA release meets at least some of your expectations.
<mandie>  we'd like to thank everyone for attending tonights session
<lmaxson>  Thank you, mandie.
<pspmikek>  thanks all
<CroMagnon>  Warp on Netscape team!
<pspmikek>  enjoy the new browser