SpeakUp with Serenity Systems (Topic: eComStation) from 07/03/2000

<WarpedOS2>	Bob, do you have a kit for purchase to try out you serenity package..?
<BobStJohn>	WarpedOS2 Do you mean something like a WiseManager Evaluation Kit .. ? Sure do. But we only provide it to qualified computer professionals ... costs $195. Requires the users to have Warp Server and OS/2 licenses. Includes a WiseManager with support for one server and one domain, WiseServer, and support for five WiseClients. It would not have eCS .. because that would be like the requirement to already have the client OS license.
<WarpedOS2>	Yes, I believe that would be it?
<Ltning>	BobStJohn: I can present a WSeB licence and about 15 Warp4 licences.. does that help?
<BobStJohn>	WarpedOS2 Send an email to info@serenity-systems.com reequesting a channel partner log on .. and you will be able to order one. Chris Stumpf has been using the kit for awhile .. has even had some refreshes.
<cstumpf>	That I have, works great except for the FTP based update system.
<WarpedOS2>	Ok, I will do that, what is you definition of a computer professional
<BobStJohn>	Ltning Help what? Get the eval kit? The eval kit is not intended for users. It is intended to help consultants get familiar with the products. However, if you are a user and you want to evaluate the product .. I would consider it .. but the eval kit maxes out at five clients. To support all 15 you would need to upgrade to the Small and Medium Business (SMB) product.
<Ltning>	BobStJohn: Only for evaluation now.. And it would be for company use/evaluation
<BobStJohn>	cstumpf I think we'll be going to a new "host" for some software updates and downloads .. to support some of the software subscription features.
<WarpedOS2>	I support 1000 wkstns with Netware 5.1 servers but am looking for a better software deployment and control
<Sector>	Well, hasn't "officialy" started yet...
<BobStJohn>	WarpedOS2 How many servers?
<WarpedOS2>	17 servers
<Ltning>	woha
<BobStJohn>	We have a WiseManager and WiseServer Enterprise. No limit on the number of servers, domains, or users. But the Enterpise products are custom. They are built for the specific user.
<Ltning>	Any OS/2 clients/servers among those?
<WarpedOS2>	Nope....no warp clients but the smaller networks I would like try wisemanager ....etc as a test pilot for now, I am a Netware Engineer and have use Warp since 2.0
<cstumpf>	Wow, that's a pretty good sized site. I'd love to get a piece of that action.
<BobStJohn>	WiseManager is an OS/2 application and will not be migrated. WiseServer runs on Warp Server, any version, and we will probably support other servers .. no rush. WS is the best server available. Clients .. we are looking at multiple ways to support Windows and Linux.
<BobStJohn>	But first ... eCS .. that will be a great client.
<WarpedOS2>	So will this kit show me how this works?
<BobStJohn>	Well, yes.
<WarpedOS2>	ok, but the clients MUST be Warp correct?
<BobStJohn>	You can also go to the web site .. on the left banner there is a Managed Client Library "button" .. go there and the first document is a WiseManager Eval kit document. Lots of info about how the product works in that document.
<BobStJohn>	Today, that's true.
<BobStJohn>	WarpedOS2 Sorry .. today, the clients are OS/2.
<WarpedOS2>	ok...
<WarpedOS2>	Does it give any control or software support to the winos2 in warp
<cstumpf>	You have complete control over installing anything to an OS/2 or eCS desktop, even dos or WinOS2 apps.
<BobStJohn>	At WarpTech we demoed a Win9X managed client, thanks to the work of Micho Durdevich. He has a web site that describes how to rpl win9X off Warp Server. He will be working with us to integrate that function to WiseManager, including drag and drop software deployment.
<WarpedOS2>	Ok, that really interests me alot, the smaller networks would I believe really benefit from that setup.
<cstumpf>	I'm in the middle of setting up my server to run Win98 as a diskless client. It's not exactly simple to setup, but once it is done, it removes a major problem of Windows eating itself alive.
<BobStJohn>	Whoa, whoa, whoa ... yeeeeh, Joachim!!!
<BobStJohn>	That would be Joachim of Mensys, our European distributor.
<Joachim>	Yes it would!
<WarpedOS2>	But so would the larger ones as well, right now we use ZEN for networks, but it deploys software but you can't remove it centerally, it is a distributed environment not server centric
<cstumpf>	At the very worst, you can restore the files from backup and reboot the client and be back in business, plus users can't install software.
<cstumpf>	Wisemanager makes adding or removing software drag-n-drop simple.
<BobStJohn>	BTW, Chris Stumpf is one of our Channel Partners .. and very familiar with what we are doing. Obviously.
<WarpedOS2>	Bob what does it take to be a channel partner?
<BobStJohn>	WarpedOS2 Essentially, it takes having OS/2 and Warp Server skills and a business model of providing fee services to end user organizations.
<Joachim>	Yes i recognize the name, Chris.
<cstumpf>	Yes, we met in atlanta, georgia at warpstock.
<Joachim>	I remember ;-)
<BobStJohn>	There is no investment for the basic level, which carries some product discounts. Discounts on products go up with other levels, but they do require investment. Those levels also provide some NFR software. You have reminded me that I need to update that page on my site.
<WarpedOS2>	Bob, well I have all the network skills from training from Netware, I use Warp server in my office but not on the main network. My office is two warp wkstns and on WSEB I upgraded to WSEB just because I have IBMS developer pack
<BobStJohn>	Joachim Well, it's supposed to start in about 20 minutes .. so thisis the 'warm up'. ;-)
<BobStJohn>	Well, I'm always in "recruit" mode. If you are interested, send an email to info@serenity-systems.com and I'lls end you an email on selling managed clients as a services opportunity.
<Fuzy|ogic>	There is a really nifty feature of SDD that let it import a monitor.inf file for windows in order to set the frequency for my monitor... That's pretty cool! I wasn't sure how I was going to do it otherwise since my monitor wasn't in the database.
<DCasey>	So ... did I sxrew up the timezone conversion?
<Abys>	afaik not
<Sector>	Err well seems we just sorta started early...
<Fuzy|ogic>	Did I land in the middle of a meeting? If so, I'll stop spouting non-sequitors...
<DCasey>	Not scheduled to start for another 8 minutes or so ... but we aren't picky around here :-)
<Fuzy|ogic>	Oh... I had no idea. Glad I was around..
<WarpedOS2>	Hi Bob, just wanted to let you know that I am from Canada, no one has ever heard of serenity systems with a RPL(future) win9X client.
<BobStJohn>	madodel forwarned is pointless to the incorrigible
<BobStJohn>	WarpedOS2 Well .. we just demoed the prototype at WarpTech .. and we are working with the developer, Micho Durdevich .. very nice guy, to turn it in to a real product. And I hope we will have a Canadian distributor on board at the end of the week. Those will help.
<WarpedOS2>	Bob.....great, the money exchange is not good and if you have a CA distributor that helps in the exchange. Can I still purchase the kit from you?
<BobStJohn>	WarpedOS2 Sure ... you can order it with a credit card on our site and it will be sent to you.
<MADodel>	Well if you guys would stop using that funny looking stuff with the pictures on it, then it might be worth something. ;-)
<WarpedOS2>	Ok, thanks...must run....
<BobStJohn>	OK .. are we starting?
<Sector>	Sounds like a good idea to me
<BobStJohn>	I'm going to make this opening remark. Serenity Systems is about Managed Clients and CTI. But today, the focus is Managed Clients. eComStation is our response to what we see as the desktop PC opportunity which is evolving because of the increased influence of the Internet.
<BobStJohn>	eComStation will be the first product to implement the concept of a Mobile Managed Client, a managed client which does not require a constant network connection.
<BobStJohn>	We plan to announce the eCS product this week and expect to start shipping the base eCS product by the end of the month, the SMP and JFS feature products will ship in the end of August. We have some dependencies on IBM to meet those dates.
<BobStJohn>	There will be an eCS upgrade from Merlin until Feb 1, 2001
<BobStJohn>	We will sell through a network of distributors, Indelible Blue in the US, Mensys in Europe, Orion Solutions in Australia, Mati in Mexico and Latin America .. and we hope to have a Canadian distributor in Toronto by the end of the week.
<BobStJohn>	Now .. I'd like you folks to steer the conversation .. I'm the marketing half of the equation .. and I'll do my best .. but some questions will be deferred to email with Kim, or posting on our eGroups fourm.
<cstumpf>	Or, I could try to answer them if I can, that is if Bob doesn't mind.
<BobStJohn>	And now persell is here to keep me honest. ;o)
<crimso>	BobStJohn: Can you tell us what exactly is contained in eCom? You mentioned SMP and JFS in a seperate product above...
<Fuzy|ogic>	What is different in managing the client that allows it to be Mobile?
<BobStJohn>	madodel Chris .. sure. He is a Channel Partner and has experience with the product. He can speak as an "expert witness".
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic The ability to use local resource for software installation or booting as the user requires. But when the network link is available, it is managed just like it's diskless rpl cousing. It woudl be implementing a local FIT table.
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic Essentially, when it was connected, it would have the ability for the server to update the entire desktop.
<Fuzy|ogic>	So, the server has tasks that queue up waiting for the client to connect?
<Fuzy|ogic>	Or does the client simply make requests?
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic An example I used in the eZine interview was the ability of Indelible Blue to actually install products ordered by users .. not download them, but install them as though they were there, complete with icon on the desktop.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Ah.... So I would NEVER have to leave my cave! Lovely!
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic I would expect both .. much like MQseries .. see what is new and different and update .. although some things, in a manner like the iNotes plugins, would wait for a connection to execute.
<cstumpf>	As far I know, it is from the server side, although Bob's example blurs things a little bit because a user could go to IB's website and buy a program and it would be downloaded and installed automatically.
<Fuzy|ogic>	hm.. Is this a service IB plans to offer? This type of remote support?
<BobStJohn>	cstumpf What I was thinking is .. the order is made, IB, using WiseManager, does a drag and drop onto the user folder to deploy the purchased application.
<cstumpf>	Agreed, but from what Kim has told me, I don't see why such an action could not be automated with scripts.
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic In line with that, we are putting IBM's remote control software, Desktop on Call, into the product .. this would facilitate the ability to provide remote services and support ..as well as the ability to control your own machine from any (authorized) machine that had a java enabled browser
<BobStJohn>	cstumpf Kim would know .. I was more concerned with the what than the how.
<cstumpf>	Or from a Java Applet Reference object without a browser.
<DSOMber1>	cstumpf - Perhaps with REXX...
<Fuzy|ogic>	Wow. Very nice.
<cstumpf>	DTOC even has an automatic html interface to make accessing multiple machines easier. You can even have it use your own html pages.
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic Yeah. I'm thinking .. you run HOUSE/2 at home, get some TV support from Hauppauge .. and you can sit in your office, operate your home PC with eCS .. and turn things on and off, have a look around. Even put in some sensors or use the cameras as motion sensors ... look in at the house when you are travelling.
<cstumpf>	that is a very good use. Could even find out if the kids are having an unauthorized party while you are away.
<BobStJohn>	cstumpf or if the neighbor is watering the plants ..like she promised.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Hmm.. Well, when the Crusoe chip is available in OS/2 ready laptops, perhaps I'll put that to the test.
<Abys>	the question what is contained in eCS is still unanswered
<cstumpf>	You don't need to wait, DTOC is accessible via any web browser with java 1.1 support.
<BobStJohn>	but I would rather talk about the larger picture .. how eCS and managed clients can effect the ability to run Internet enabled business desktop computing. That's what we wexpect to be big in the next two years.
<BobStJohn>	Abys Short answer is OS/2 based on Convenience Pak, WiseClient, and Desktop on-Call. Over time, this will be extended to include support for local FIT.
<Joachim>	Internet apps: ThinkFree would be a nice example!
<cstumpf>	Joachim, how was dinner?
<BobStJohn>	Abys Additional packaging is available, but I'm really looking for distributors to address those needs.
<Fuzy|ogic>	As an aside, will the Convenience Pack be OS/2 with FP14?
<Joachim>	Dinner was great, now all i need is my coffee :-)
<Joachim>	Right, Abys, and that would be us... Indelible, Mati, Mensys etc.
<BobStJohn>	Abys from a development standpoint, we are looking at pre-execution boot services, rpl support on peer networks, booting over the Inet, enhancements to the current rpl processes.
<Abys>	big plans...
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic You can go to IBM's web site to read about the convenience pak. Short answer is, our original proposal to IBM was for a client using the files in WSeb .. they persauded us to wait and use Convenience Pak. That was the right thing to do.
<JT^>	Target schedules?
<MADodel>	But CP's are only to be released once a year
<BobStJohn>	Abys We are very serious about this. The more we worked on support for other client workstations, the more we came to appreciate what we have in OS/2. Doesn't mean we can get it all done immediately, but there is clearly opportunity here.
<MADodel>	WSeB will have continued stream of FP's
<Joachim>	WSeB *needs* some too...
<BobStJohn>	CPs are part of Software Choice, now. To get enhancements to eCS, including those enhancements IBM releases through Software Choice, you would need a subscription with one of the distributors .. and after Feb 1, 2001 .. that would include fixpacks.
<MADodel>	You said you would be basing eCS on the CP. I took that to mean that that is how updates to the OS would continue to be applied
<Lokutos>	Did you have problems with bugs in the OS/2 versions that you used to build your product and how did IBM support you ?
<BobStJohn>	JT^ for all the enhancements? I can't answer that yet. Some of that answer depends on the response to eCS over the next two months. The stronger the response, the easier it is to deliver enhancements. But there will be new things delivered before the end of the year.
<MADodel>	Will eCS be independent of the CP for future updates then?
<BobStJohn>	madodel Not always clear to me what IBM is doing .. but much of what I would expect to see in next year's Convenience Pak is likely to be available as features on Software Choice .. the additional features and fixpacks, etc would be packaged into a refresh called Convenience Pak.
<BobStJohn>	madodel eCS will have enhancements in addition to Software Choice and Convenience Pak.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I can't seem to find any Convenience Pack info at IBM... And Warpcast is down at the moment...
<MADodel>	What I want to know is how updates to the base OS under eCS will be managed.
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic Look at the Announcement letter from April 11 .. maybe some other links would be there.
<DSOMber1>	Announcement Letter (USA) - Convenience Packages
<DSOMber1>	http://www2.ibmlink.ibm.com/cgi-bin/master?xh=frdd4KyFVkn*pD1USenGnN9332&request=
<DSOMber1>	announcements&parms=H%5f200%2d082&xhi=usa%2emain%7cannouncements%5e&xfr=N
<BobStJohn>	madodel Again, I'm going to point to the distributors .. but what I want them to set up is a support contract which will provide a software subscription service. When you buy the product, you register, you can buy the support contract which includes user support, it also includes a software subscription. So, you would go to their web site, or mine, enter your id and password, and download the features and enhancements.
<JT^>	Any chance IB will do a warpup like service here?
<BobStJohn>	madodel The open switch, which I don't plan on controlling, is .. do the distributors sell the subscription independent of the service and support contract .. or as one product. I prefer it be one product.
<DCasey>	DSOMber1 and easier link to the announcement letter is: http://www.warpdoctor.org/warp4refresh.html
<Joachim>	Bob, actually it would be like setting up our own SW Choice server, right? Plus *our* add-ons/updates...
<BobStJohn>	JT^ That's an IB decision .. but I would expect IB and the other distributors to use eCS to wrapper other products and services.
<cstumpf>	I would imagine so.
<MADodel>	OK so enhansements/updates/fixes will be available on a continual basis. I just don't like the CP being just once a year.
<Joachim>	So, if we would offer something like a userid/password accessible server with all packed on CD *twice* a year, that would be a rather good solution, Madodel?
<BobStJohn>	Joachim Exactly what Joachim said. Mensys would have "software choice" type section on their site .. but it would include more items that IBM's software choice .. it would be a super set, not a subset
<BobStJohn>	madodel Right ... delivered via the site when available. Some distributors have talked about quarterly CDs in addition to the site.
<crimso>	Will there be NLS? Or just US-English?
<BobStJohn>	crimso We would deliver in the languages supported by the Convenience Pak
<JT^>	If there is value add beyond SW choice, any idea what the expected cost/yr will come out?
<BobStJohn>	crimso I should be careful ... not all the stuff would be avialable in all languages .. but no, not limited to US English.
<Lokutos>	Once again: Did you have problems with bugs in the OS/2 versions that you used to build your product and how did IBM support you ?
<Joachim>	Quarterly might be overdoing it, imho.
<BobStJohn>	JT^ Depends on what other value the distributor places into the subscription. I can't price their products.
<BobStJohn>	Joachim That's between you and your customers. I know you will do the right thing. :-)
<MADodel>	Joachim: I'm not concerned about the CD, just so long as fixes are made available as necessary
<Joachim>	JT^ what i expect it will be approx the same price, but with more features! Win-win ;-)
<BobStJohn>	Lokutos We did find some problems. IBM was very helpful. They are being very supportive.
<Lokutos>	Thats good to read. After all SOME ISVs reported to have problems and said, they ceased development because of lack of support
<BobStJohn>	Lokutos I've seen the same. But we are trying to avoid being overly dependent on IBM to do additional work, and leverage the things that they have already done, or are completely committed to doing.
<Lokutos>	Yes, it is a fine thing if that CAN be avoided. Would you say that your own development was more on the network part ?
<BobStJohn>	I appreciate that this is marketing speak .. but we can all see what is happening to the computing environment. We position eCS and WiseManager a product solution set of features which seeks to address the immediate environment, but is really targeting what we expect to see in the next 18 to 36 months.
<MADodel>	Do you think m$ will turn around and innovate your concept?
<BobStJohn>	Lokutos I would say our development, up to this point, has been on top of the IBM supplied function. However, we recognize the need to go further .. and that's the plan.
<MADodel>	That was a serious question BTW
<BobStJohn>	madodel I think that's there plan, but I don't think they can execute. They are having a lot of trouble giving up the model that made them so successful. Even so, they are heading in this direction ... but I expect we'll wait for it as long as we waited for Cairo.
<BobStJohn>	madodel and I expect that things like proprietory OSs will be a much diminished role in the future, anyway.
<Fuzy|ogic>	Cairo still managed to gum everything up for everybody else despite it's lateness...
<BobStJohn>	Fuzy|ogic True .. but the world has moved on wrt the pace of doing business. You can't freeze the industry like you could five years ago. e.commerce and the Internet won't tolerate it.
<Fuzy|ogic>	I won't argue with that.
<Joachim>	Cairo? Wasn't that like the merger of NT + DOS?
<MADodel>	You guys are out on the edge here. Sounds like you are taking it further then IBM has envisioned. m$ is still clucking about winDOS Me now. windoze2000 was supposed to be the consumer OS replacement. I think you are right, but they are still scary
<BobStJohn>	madodel I think we are taking it exactly where IBM envisioned.
<mandie>	sounds like you're within safe boundries then
<BobStJohn>	madodel Still a lot of DOS around. Will always be a lot of Windows around. When you talk to users, you have to talk about Windows support. You talk to consultants, you talk Linux .. want to install something that does it all ..you use OS/2 .. but
<BobStJohn>	Joachim I don't think Fuzzy understood.
<MADodel>	Will Java 1.3+ be part of eCS?
<Joachim>	Nope. He ran out ato buy SW Choice?
<Joachim>	madodel: per definition ;-)
<BobStJohn>	madodel but ... (yes wert of Java 1.3) we will use OS/2 as a an engine to deliver other things.
<BobStJohn>	Joachim if he went out to buy Software Choice, he didn't understand. eCS provides all those opportunities .. and more, for less, I would expect.
<BobStJohn>	Mike Persell and I were talking (over BBQ) and I maintain that the role of the OS is changing back to what it was in the '80s .. and the network is assuming the role the OS had taken on in the '90s
<MarkE>	Bob, how much will eCS approximately cost?
<Joachim>	I know that Bob. But we offerrrr sooo many good stuff! And Mike, what else will we put in the box?
<BobStJohn>	MarkE I can give your our SRP .. I can't tell you how the distributor will price or package.
<persell>	Enough to satisfy customers but not so much as to scare away developers and ISVs
<BobStJohn>	srp for ecs OS/2 V4 users $129 .. new users $269
<MADodel>	Is that per year?
<BobStJohn>	srp eSC SMP os/2 v4 users $249 new users $389
<BobStJohn>	madodel no .. these are purchase prices for the product
<MADodel>	Will there then be a charge for update access?
<BobStJohn>	srp for ecs Professional (SMP and JFS) OS/2 v4 users $359 new users $499
<RS-23>	So, here in the Great White North, that $129 is approx. $189CDN. Not bad.
<MarkE>	That all sounds very good. Is it possible to get a eCS package that includes JFS but no SMP?
<BobStJohn>	And there will be a Programmer's Workbench, probably with SMP, JFS, DB2 Developers Toolkit, OS/2 Toolkit and some Visual Age products .. but I don't have that pulled together, yet.
<JT^>	VA C compiler that works?
<BobStJohn>	madodel the updates are part of the support contracts we were talking about earlier. Need to talk to the distributor to see how they will be priced and packaged.
<BobStJohn>	RS-23 You may have missed it, but I hope to have a distributor in Toronto by the end of the week.
<Joachim>	MarkE no, that's not a valid combo.
<RS-23>	BobStJohn I noticed...but we'll still have the exchange rate.
<Joachim>	I think Mensys will be offering preloaded SMP workstations, i've got one running myself (with WSeB) on dual Celerons. It ROCKS!
<BobStJohn>	MarkE The only reason we put SMP out by itself is because there is a requirement for some diskless rpl clients using SMP .. and the diskless client does need (or want to pay for) JFS
<BobStJohn>	does need iatr does *not* need
<BobStJohn>	and does not want to pay for
<BobStJohn>	JT^ VA C compiler .. question or comment?
<JT^>	question about the Pgmmers Wkbench
<BobStJohn>	JT^ I've requested licensing for VA C/C++ and VA Java Professional .. some have asked for VA COBOL .. I'll look at it. But I think the thing we want to support is eCS Programmers Workbench as the premier Java development platform on Intel.
<BobStJohn>	JT^ or are you saying the compiler doesn't come with ...
<JT^>	There have been complaints about the compiler (Sun, Bill Schindler) and I wondered if you were going
<JT^>	to be able to provide fixes?
<Joachim>	There was some discussion about Speedsoft Sibyl. Is there any demand for that?
<MADodel>	VA COBOL is a very expensive product geared to the enterprise.
<BobStJohn>	JT^ I should be able able to .. the challenge is making sure I know enough to do the job of getting the stuff properly.
<OS2NL>	I see people are talking about which compiler to put with ECS
<JT^>	os2nl - what compilers, etc. are in a Programmers Workbench additional product beyone eCS
<BobStJohn>	Part of the message about eCS is that we don't want to focus on OSs. We want to focus on the ability to deliver the desktop, programs and data, to manage operations and support, to lower costs and provide a better computing environment. Sometimes I have trouble reconciling COBOL with that message.
<crimso>	hm, the recent announcement of VA Java doesn't contain OS/2 in the list of supported platforms.
<JT^>	some of us have had irreconcileable differences with COBOL for many years!
<BobStJohn>	But ... the other message wrt to eCS .. is "run your legacy apps as long as you need to ... eCS will support the legacy environment as you move into the network centric model"
<MADodel>	Yes, is IBM pulling out of supporting Java development on OS/2?
<cstumpf>	That legacy support is really key too.
<BobStJohn>	wrt Compilers .. make sure I have the right info and I'll see what I can do. My intent is to create a base Programmer's Workbench. When you order that, you would have the option of buying some other tools at a promotional price. But I'm early on that effort.
<Joachim>	Yeah. I hope they'll support NetVista all the way, so we'll *have* to get decent USB support!
<BobStJohn>	crimso I have to defer ... when I went to the IBM web site, OS/2 was still listed as supported
<crimso>	no, I ment the announcement for VA Java 3.5
<crimso>	there also was a message on WarpCast stating this
<persell>	Only Netvista box supported so far is the 2800
<cstumpf>	I don't know what IBM's java on OS/2 plans are, but it seems that the main reason the new java requires software choice is that it needs the new tcp/ip stack.
<Joachim>	persell: i really like the looks of the X40 ;-)
<persell>	There are more coming that look good and are good designs
<Joachim>	persell: i've had it in my hands! It *is* a cool device. A shame they put in only USB connectors.
<Lokutos>	Pleas guys, tell us what NetVista is
<persell>	New hardware clients for NEtwork Computing
<MADodel>	http://www.pc.ibm.com/ww/netvista/choose_country.html
<Lokutos>	thanks for the ptr. And that box is heavily using USB ?
<Joachim>	Lokutos: one of them. The legacy free model. It is the neatest and also rather powerfull for the price (about 2500 DM)
<BobStJohn>	I don't see any more questions headed my way ... I expect we will announce the product by the end of the week (I'd like to get the Canadian distribution resolved, first. eCS is expected to ship end of July, eCS SMP, eCS Professional and Programmer's Workbench in the end of August. Distributors will set up their own order process.
<Lokutos>	BobStJohn Will you be at Warpstock this year presenting/speaking ?
<Joachim>	Yeah, Bob. Will you?
<BobStJohn>	Lokutos I plan to attend. I think we'll work with Chris Stumpf and Indelible Blue to have an exhibit .. I don't really have a presentation .. I think I've said it all, especially to that audience. Might to a Birds of Feather if they want one. We are making plans to do WarpStock Europe.
<DSOMber1>	Do wireless LAN devices support RPL?
<BobStJohn>	DSOMber1 I should be asking you!
<Joachim>	DSOMber1 ask MADwirles
<Lokutos>	That was my next question, as I am coordinator for exhibitors for Warpstock Europe. So have you had already contact with one of the planning team ?
<Swanee>	BobStJohn: Take me with you to WS Europe! I can be squeezed into a trunk!
<BobStJohn>	Lokutos I think Kim has been communicating .. I think he want to show eCS booting of the Inet.
<MADodel>	The IBM Wireless LAN ISA cards support RPL. I don't know about newer ones.
<Lokutos>	Yes, indeed. I was not able to link that with the product name. So perhaps you both come to join us ? would be glad to meet you.
<Joachim>	Swanee: trunk in airplane = no fun :-(
<DSOMber1>	madodel - Interesting...
<Swanee>	Joachim: I'd have to wear warm clothes but I figure it would be worth it. :-)
<MADodel>	Swanee: That would be some big trunk
<MADodel>	:-)
<Joachim>	Swanee: i'm sure it would be worth it, because i'll be there ;-))))
<BobStJohn>	I would be happy to attend.
<Swanee>	madodel: Did you have to tell EVERYONE? :-)
<MADodel>	Joachim: You coming to WS2000 in Philly?
<Lokutos>	I answered to Kims mail: he wanted to know wehre Karlsruhe is being located and to evaluate costs. So if you want I cc to you my next mail
<Joachim>	madodel: i haven't checked yet, but i hope i will.
<BobStJohn>	We will be putting up a www.ecomstation.com .. and there will be links to the distributors. I know Joachim will have an exciting web presence. ;-)
<Joachim>	Thanks Bob. I hope i can live up to the expectation you just created :-)
<BobStJohn>	Lokutos Not necessary .. he'll keep me posted. Karshule .. the US Army still have their armored divisions there? I was in Germany in my Army stint .. too long ago to mention. Berlin and Frankfurt .. but I really liked Wiesbaden and the Rhile valley.
<BobStJohn>	Rhile iatr Rhine
<crimso>	actually Karlsruhe
<BobStJohn>	cr
<BobStJohn>	crimso sorry .. finger cjheckl ;-)
<crimso>	hehe
<Lokutos>	I don't know about the army, but yes, this region is very nice there. And the location for WSE2000 is very good - you'll love it
<DSOMber1>	About eCS booting off the Inet...how would we do this securely? Tunneling via IPSec and Injoy? Or other methods SSL/SSH/PGP?
<BobStJohn>	DSOMber1 That's exactly the sort of question I can't answer .. Kim and others handle that ... sorry
<Joachim>	Lokutos: tell Kim Chueng that it's nice. He doesn't like the location.
<DSOMber1>	Ah...that's ok, I'll post to the mailing list.
<Lokutos>	Joachim Why ? ok we'll put photos online (not of the country, but of the location for the evnet :-))
<BobStJohn>	Joachim Kim shouldn't worry ..it's not as though we would let him out to do anything.
<crimso>	joachim: it's pretty high-tech
<Joachim>	Bob: Yes, because he could only get a 7 day round trip. So he's stuck there for a while. I already offered him to see part of Holland.
<Joachim>	crimso: i heard location is nice.
<BobStJohn>	we should probably set up some meetings with local companies .. is Oliver Mark near there?
<Joachim>	crimso: i also believe it ;-)
<Lokutos>	Tell him that he can join a few days earlier partying with Team OS/2 :-)
<BobStJohn>	I don't want him to be a d*mned tourist. I want him to work, work, work. I'll take the photos and talk to the ladies.
<crimso>	LOL
<DSOMber1>	Ah...German engineering!
<Lokutos>	BobStJohn That is gemutlich Germany right ? (Do you speak some german ?)
<BobStJohn>	cstumpf Chris is right, of course. However, I don't feel compelled to buy every painting I enjoy looking at.
<cstumpf>	I was just busting on you :)
<cstumpf>	Anyway it is extremely doubtful that I will be at Warpstock Europe.
<BobStJohn>	Joachim can comment on my German .. which is not probably down to ... Prima, nicht?!?!? Dufta!!!! und mensch, du bringst mir auf die palma
<Joachim>	Well everyone, i'm off to an appointment, see you all on eComStation at egroups!
<cstumpf>	Bye, Joachim
<Joachim>	Oh well, Bob: your German isst sehr gut eigentlich.
<DSOMber1>	Later Joachim.
<Lokutos>	BobnStJohn Outstanding! The evening event (still looking for sponsors BTW) will be funny
<Swanee>	Even if you only buy a few paintings the wife tends to be concerned. I know my wife doesn't even let me date anymore. :-)
<BobStJohn>	yeah, yeah .. or is that Jah, Jah!
<Joachim>	Lokutos: are you begging here?
<Lokutos>	It is Ja Ja (pronounced Jah , Jah)
<Joachim>	Ja, and dass isst dasselbe auf hollaendisch.
<Swanee>	Bye Joachim, great to see you again!
<BobStJohn>	Well .. this is deteriorating .. and offers me the chance to get in real trouble ... so I'm going to leave soon unless someone wants to buy something?
<Lokutos>	Joachim Never thought of that, just want to tell people how to emphasize tehmselves at the right place :-)
*	Rat-Salad is away: yard work
<BobStJohn>	Lokutos Well, my German was almost all "spoken" .. learned at the clubs in the evening .. I told you .. I was a young man. :-)
<Abys>	Joachim: what plans does Mensys have with aCS?
<Joachim>	I'm really off now. Tshuss!
<Buzzz>	b4 you leave Bob... fraid I just got here and missed the good part.. mind giving me a synopsis?
<Joachim>	Great plans. Why don't you ask that half an hour ago?
<Lokutos>	BoStJohn If you keep your promises, I would not think abnout wether people will buy; they will
<Abys>	busy...
<MADodel>	A log will be posted to the VOICE site once we expunge all the naughty stuff
<Joachim>	okay, really got to go!
<Abys>	cu!
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz You're so cute when you are like this .. I wish I had a camera ... what do you want to know.
<Buzzz>	lol
<Buzzz>	well... for starters, is eComStation the answer to my Warp prayers?
<BobStJohn>	madodel Thank you, thank you, thank you ... for your expunge
<Lokutos>	Ok, I think my english is not good ebnough to tell what I really meant ;-)
<Buzzz>	in other words... will I not have to move off OS/2??
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz Well, yes!
<Buzzz>	which I've been dreading for yrs..
<Buzzz>	ahhhhh :-))))0
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz No.
<Buzzz>	well then.. here's a couple more questions then..
<Buzzz>	first off.. I've a Warp4 liscense... how do I provide you verification?
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz Seriously, eCS will bring value to OS/2 users .. and we think it will enable folks to stay on legacy systems for the next five years .. and legacy systems would include anything that exists, today, ;-)
<Buzzz>	next question.. how and were can I buy???
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz That would be up to the distributor. I've suggested that an affadavit would satisfy me.
<Lokutos>	Have to leave now. Read you later. Bye folks
<Buzzz>	ohhh man.. 5 yrs!!!! w00p!!!
<Buzzz>	hmm.. ok.. whats the easiest way?
*	Buzzz whips out credit card and waves it wildly
<BobStJohn>	We'll make an announcement by the end of the week. You would order from on of the distributors, Indelible Blue, Mensys, Mati, Orion Solutions .. depends on which country claims you.
<Buzzz>	great! I've great trust for IB
<Buzzz>	they've always taken good care of me, btw
<BobStJohn>	I was particularly happy we were able to get them engaged. They are the right people for this project.
<Buzzz>	ohh.. here's one more.. whats the story with Project Concord?
<Buzzz>	yes, I definately think that was a good move
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz We are discussing the design of the card now. I hope we'll be able to do something with that within 90 days.
<Buzzz>	wow... you guyz are amazing!
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz Thank you ..
<Buzzz>	well heck.. its true!
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz are you on eGroups?
<Buzzz>	while I'm at it... I gotta thank you for the renewed hope!
<Buzzz>	and at a time when things seemed darkest
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz the renewed hope is justified
<Buzzz>	no, and I"m not sure how to get there/sign up, etc
<Buzzz>	well Bob... IMHO only thanks to you all
<BobStJohn>	just go to www.egroups.com .. then sign up for ecomstation
<Buzzz>	and I really think you've made it possible for perhaps the first time, that os/2 in some form can be really viable
<BobStJohn>	but we'll also be releasing info on WarpCast and there will be a www.ecomstation.com site
<Buzzz>	ok, got it.. thnx
<Buzzz>	ok.. get WarpCast each day
<Buzzz>	any idea when www.ecomstation.com will be up?
<BobStJohn>	The site is likely to be up by the end of the week. Same with the announcement. First products ship at the end of the month and the SMP and JFS products should ship the end of next month.
<BobStJohn>	k
<Buzzz>	man.. at the risk of being repettive.. you guyz are amazing!!!
<BobStJohn>	kim Oh, sure ... now
<BobStJohn>	kim Did you find a way to lurk ... without showing up on the list?
<kim>	Hi everybody. I am waiting for my wife and deided to just sneak in...
<Buzzz>	oh.. one more Q... I've actually convinced someone to become a new user.. do you recommend buying Warp 4 then getting eComStation, or just going straight to that?
<kim>	oopss.. there goes the honk. Bye.
<DSOMber1>	That was brief.
<BobStJohn>	It would be cheaper to start with the eCS new user product. That would be $269 SRP .. the upgrade is $129 .. so he would be paying first for Warp 4, then $129. ... a lot would depend on what price he can get Warp 4 ...for
<Buzzz>	I see...
<BobStJohn>	DSOMber1 I'd make a remark .. but he might see it in the log. ;-)
<Buzzz>	thanx again soooo very much Bob! and best of luck with the new products!
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz Thank you. I appreciate your support.
<Buzzz>	well you've got it in spades!
<DSOMber1>	Fair enough, BobStJohn...that's good judgement. :-)
<Buzzz>	and I intend to pass the word to the best of my ability
<BobStJohn>	DCasey and madodel Thanks you for your hospitality. I guess we'll see what happens next week.
<Buzzz>	oh.. just thot of another Q..
<BobStJohn>	Oh yeah .. and not to forget Swanee .. even though he apparently forgot ..me
<MADodel>	Everyone please feel free to stop into #voice anytime. And remember we will be doing this again Next Monday at 8PM EDT 00:00GMT
<BobStJohn>	buzz fire when ready
<Buzzz>	will it be nescessary to pay for all of WSEB to have SMP support? I've 2 dual CPU machines..
<Swanee>	And how could I forget? :-)
*	Swanee is just a little late getting everywhere these days. :-)
<Sector>	Situation normal
<Abys>	BobStJohn Thanks!
<BobStJohn>	Buzzz No, the ecS SMP product (upgrade from Merlin) is $249. The eCS Professional, which is SMP and JFS is $359 .. those are SRP .. IB might do better.
<Buzzz>	wow... fantastic...
<Swanee>	Thank you so much for being with us today Bob. To everyone else, remember to tell your friends that Bob will be with us again next monday evening covering eComStation once again and any new developments between now and then.
<Buzzz>	I thank you once again!
<BobStJohn>	Well, I've been part of the OS/2 community a long time. And I really think we can start something here that we can build on ...
<Sector>	BobStJohn, thanks for stopping in and having this chat
<Buzzz>	I think _YOU_ have Bob!
<BobStJohn>	My pleasure .. thanks for having me ... now I'll go play with the kiddos, adios
<Buzzz>	BobStJohn is god!
<Buzzz>	lol
<DSOMber1>	He really pulls the plug fast.....
<Buzzz>	he don't mess around
<DSOMber1>	When he says he's gone....he's really gone.
<Buzzz>	lol
<DSOMber1>	Ok, what's the plan...are we going to stick around?
<Buzzz>	I guess I won't... (supposed to be working lol)
<Buzzz>	cya all around...
<Buzzz>	and thanx!
<Sector>	Bye Buzzz
<Buzzz>	bye Sector
<DSOMber1>	Hello kim.
<kim>	Am I on?
<DSOMber1>	BobStJohn left a few mins ago.
<MADodel>	kim: I thought you were honked?
<DSOMber1>	Yes, kim...we can see you.
<kim>	I asked my wife to get some take out for lunch...:=)
<DSOMber1>	Ah...eating at the keyboard?
<kim>	So, looks like Persell is here?
<kim>	Or eat the keyboard...
<kim>	...that's if we don't sell enough eCS...
<MADodel>	quite a few left when Bob left
<DSOMber1>	persell is around here...maybe away from keyboard.
<MADodel>	From what Bob tells us that shouldn't be a problem.
<kim>	He always think so...
<MADodel>	you could smack him and see if he wakes up
<kim>	He's the marketeer...I am the actual salesman, you know...
<kim>	So, what did he promised?
<DSOMber1>	I asked Bob a question but he said that you are better prepared to answer it....
<WarpHoss>	the sun the moon the stars is what he promised :)
<DSOMber1>	About eCS booting off the Inet...how would we do this securely? Tunneling via IPSec and Injoy? Or other methods SSL/SSH/PGP?
<kim>	Have no idea yet.
<kim>	Don't assume I am the "true" techkie. I just do telephones.
<DSOMber1>	Ok, kim...no problem. Inform us at your earliest convenience.
<MADodel>	Isn't there tunneling support built in to TCP/IP 4.1+?
<kim>	Yep.
<kim>	There are a number of issues to resolve. Got to do it one step at a time.
<DSOMber1>	madodel - I believe so.
<kim>	The main issue is to reduce boot time.
<kim>	Several minutes on every boot might not be acceptable.
<kim>	Got to cut that down to less than a minute.
<kim>	Then we can think about security.
<MADodel>	What happened to 29 seconds? Or are you speaking of the MMC?
<kim>	With RIPL, we can cut that down to 12 seconds, actually. DHCP is not going to be that.
<MADodel>	What is the difference if any between RIPL and RPL?
<kim>	Same.
<MADodel>	My IBM Wireless LAN cards support RPL. Will they work with eCS?
<DSOMber1>	In the case of an INET booted client...I guess there would be advantages to using a local swap path?
<kim>	Don't get confused between eCS and remote boot.
<kim>	eCS can work with or without remote boot.
<kim>	With INet booted client, you definitely will need a local swap - I think.
<MADodel>	I thought they were the same. I thought MMC was a subset
<MADodel>	That didn't require RPL
<kim>	That's why I said it can work with or without remote boot.
<kim>	Looks like everybody left.
<MADodel>	I have a question
<kim>	Okay?
<MADodel>	Bob tells us that eCS will be based on Warp4 with the Convenience Pack. But that isn't do out til November.
<MADodel>	Yet eCS is promised for july how does that work?
<kim>	I thought we were very clear on that already, no?
<MADodel>	Enlighten me
<kim>	Bob had said in his interview with OS2 eZine that we don't want to wait. That's why we annouced the preview version.
<kim>	For people that have remote boot capability, we can actually ship right away.
<kim>	But for people that don't have RPL, we are going to create a preview CD and ship that.
<kim>	The requirement is that when the actual product come out, you will HAVE to replace it with the real thing.
<MADodel>	OK, I read the article, but didn't commit it to memory. :-)
<kim>	For non-remote booted stations, we have no way of "hecking" together a presentable installation program. We have to wait for IBM to deliver something to us before I can actually ship something.
<kim>	And "waiting" for IBM is not always the fun part of this business, of course.
<kim>	Ar, my lunch arrived. Keep talking guys.
<MADodel>	OK what shal we chat about?
<kim>	Anybody tried the XWorkPlace?
<DSOMber1>	Ok, so the product available at the end of the month can be considered preview and will ship with a less than perfect installer from the point of view of local boot?
<kim>	Bob won't let me ship anything that has a "less than perfect installer"
<MADodel>	There is a review of XWorkplace 9.0.3 in the July VOICE Newsletter
<pdxPengui>	argh does that mean we need!! WM to install till after preview
<pdxPengui>	but what does perfect mean
<kim>	Well, "perfect" in that sense that you don't have to take a "backuped" image of what I have
<kim>	sitting on my hard disk and do a "restore" onto your harddisk.
<kim>	If I were to ship something now, that's the "install"er for you.
<MADodel>	Can I download it? :-)
<kim>	Ha, ha, ha...
<kim>	On the bright side, I walked in the door this morning and that's a package sitting there waiting for me - from IBM.
<DSOMber1>	Hungry for code...are we? :-)
<MADodel>	How large are we talking compared wit hWarp 4 GA?
<kim>	I gave Glenn the package and kept working. Some 5 minutes later, I look up, and the screen he was working on have something on it that looked like a ..... (cough, cough, cough)
<MADodel>	They send you a preview of windoze Me?
<kim>	"windoze Me"?
<MADodel>	That is the name for m$'s "last" update to winDOS
<MADodel>	"windows Me" actually, but I have a hard time spelling that word
<kim>	Okay. Let me take a look here.....nop. No winDOS. Have an ICON that looks the same as the LVM icon on my WSeB machine...
<DSOMber1>	Windows Millenium Edition (ME?)
<kim>	And it has a folder that says "OS/2 Peer"...
<MADodel>	Is eCS going to be using LVM?
<kim>	LVM is listed in IBM's Convenence Pak.
<kim>	Mmm....looks like there is no VoiceType, no Bonus Pak, no OpenDOC, no WarpGuide, ...
<DCasey>	Yep .. it is .. I was just looking at that
<kim>	I wonder how Glenn created this machine....
<MADodel>	LVM does not play nice with NT. Will eCS MMC be able to multiple boot with other operating systems?
<kim>	I don't have access to NT. You guys would have to find out.
<MADodel>	OpenDOC is dead. Will you be shipping SO 5.1a in place of Bonus Pak?
<kim>	"In place"? Nobody wants anything in the Bonus Pak?
<MADodel>	I can send you a copy of Nt 4. I have two that are unused
<MADodel>	I haven't used a BP app version in years.
<DCasey>	neither have I
<MADodel>	I have the full versions of most of the items and I never used IBM Works
<DCasey>	Not since I upgraded Faxworks lite
<kim>	I rather have somebody else do the NT part.
<kim>	Last 5 minutes. Got to go.
<MADodel>	I gave up on NT, I got tired of saying how stupid it was.
<DCasey>	Thanks for dropping in, kim
<DCasey>	don't be a stranger :-)
<DSOMber1>	Thanks Kim...
<kim>	Don't tell that to ...I won't say who. Just drove him nuts over the weekend.
<kim>	Bye. Guys.
<DCasey>	Cya, kim
<Sector>	Bye kim ,thanks for stopping bye