SpeakUp with Ulli Ramps of R.O.M. Logicware (Topic: Papyrus 8) from 05/15/2000

<Ulli>  OK, so "Hi" to everybody, now its official :-)
<Ulli>  I am one of the main developers and pres. of R.O.M. logicware GmbH,
<Ulli>  (corp.), which is the company doing Papyrus since 1992, since 1995 for OS/2.
<Ulli>  since 1997 for WIN - only to make clear that we haven't been on WIN
<Ulli>  before OS/2 :-)
<Ulli>  Papyrus OFFICE Demo Version 8.17 OS/2 is out on our homepage
<Ulli>  http://www.rom-logicware.com tonight, so you all can have a look on it
<Ulli>  while listening.
<Ulli>  The demo archive is only 2.7 MB ...
<Pilot>  Ulli: "OS/2 signals to Papyrus in system call..." error messages all the time now after I deleted papyrus.ini :(((
<Ulli>  So I have to thank the guys of the VOICE for the invitation to this session :-)
<Pilot>  Looks like I'd better to reinstall
<Ulli>  Pilot: Hm ...
<Pilot>  Abraxas: be VERY careful :)
<Ulli>  And when you try to make a new papyrus.ini by selecting "save options"
<Ulli>  in the "options" menu?
<Pilot>  Ulli: errors fly again :(
<Pilot>  Ulli: it kinda works after i dismiss all of the error windows tho
<Ulli>  just trying the same, no problem ...
<KC>  Hi All
<Ulli>  which one of the two options did you select, pilot?
<Pilot>  Ulli: but i'd probably try re-installing
<Ulli>  Hi, KC :-)
<Abraxas>  Pilot what sort of errors are you getting?
<Pilot>  Ulli: Options->Save options
<Ulli>  pilot: just keep your fingers away from _report.pap ;-)
<Pilot>  Ulli: is there another one?
<KC>  Sorry I am a little late, did the session start yet
<Ulli>  another what?
<Pilot>  Abraxas: something about DevCap and some weird code after
<Ulli>  KC: Just a minor problem fixing, but you may interfere with any questions :-)
<Projects>  KC: yes, it started. Go sit in the corner :-)
<crimso>  Ulli: Can you tell us a bit about the new features? I saw the session at
<Pilot>  Abraxas: DevQueryCaps UNK 207 C E
<crimso>  Warpstock Europe last year and I'm especially interested in the database part.
<Ulli>  pilot: ah. looks like problems with russian codepages. I already told
* *[ ] * madodel has changed the topic to (Speakup with Ulli Ramp of R.O.M.Logicware in Progress)
<Abraxas>  Pilot OK ... I haerd of that ....but I haven't seen it
<Ulli>  you that we will have a look at proper codepage handling within the next
<Ulli>  weeks, OK? :-)
<Ulli>  UNK is a unicode message.
<Pilot>  Ulli: no prob, i'd love to be a beta-tester :)
<KC>  Ulli, the announcement in the newsgroup said you are shipping. Is that true?
<Ulli>  crimso: new since? :-)
<Ulli>  kc: Yes. I did it two hours ago. :-)
<Pilot>  KC: i even have the darn thing installed :)
<crimso>  Ulli: new in version 8...
<Pilot>  KC: half an hour ago :))
<KC>  Great, Is the demo ready yet?
<Ulli>  pilot: you can be sure that we will do much more unicode improvement, because
*  Projects is downloading it, but it'll be well after the meeting before it finally gets here (slooow dialup)
<Ulli>  we plan a Japanese and an Arabian/Hebrew version, so we have to :-)
<Ulli>  kc: demo is on our homepage.
<Ulli>  www.rom-logicware.com.
<Projects>  www.rom-logicware.com
<Pilot>  Ulli: OK, so really count me in for any testing/bug reports
<KC>  Wonderfull, here I go to it ...
<Ulli>  I already do, pilot :-)
<Pilot>  Ulli: or any help i can provide
<Ulli>  russian version, maybe?
<madodel>  You will support Right to Left entry?
<Ulli>  madodel: we already do.
<Ulli>  you can give a paragraph the property that text is written from left to right.
<madodel>  Cool, didn't know that
<Ulli>  but as I already said to our russian friend pilot, we have to improve our
* *[ ] * Signoff phil (phil)
<Ulli>  unicode support
* *[ ] * madodel has changed the topic to (Speakup with Ulli Ramps of R.O.M.Logicware in Progress)
<Ulli>  so that hebrew, arabian, russian stuff is handled properly.
<Ulli>  at the moment papyrus internally is already unicode enabled fully, but
<Ulli>  we have to set the hook for OS/2.
<Pilot>  Ulli: we have a special team of developers set up here to help other developers to implement support Russian in their products (if they wish of course)
<crimso>  Ulli: new features in version 8 compared to 7.5(?) - the one presented at Warpstock Europe
<Ulli>  we wish - why not. :-)
<Pilot>  Ulli: i can get in contact with them, since i am not a unicode expert myself
<Ulli>  sorry, crimso, lots of questions here :-)
<Ulli>  new since 7.5: the database has become relational, totally. lots of tiny
<Ulli>  add ons to the database. calculation possibilities, string manipulations
<Ulli>  in the database and in the integrated spreadsheet.
<Ulli>  HyperOFFICE, of course.
<Ulli>  does anybody know a wordprocessor being able of setting a special type of
<Ulli>  hyperlinks directly out of a text document to a dataset of your database?
<warspite>  Good morning Ulli, all: Has your database got a .DBF Import feature?
<Ulli>  papyrus can. We think of that as being new, so we gave it a name:
<Ulli>  HyperOFFICE.
<Ulli>  warspite: yes.
<warspite>  You beauty!
<Ulli>  simply yes. we already tested it with several dbase derivats, and they
<crimso>  Ulli: sounds good!
<Pilot>  Ulli: hurray, reinstall cured all errors!
<Ulli>  all worked (OK, some of them after some hours of work O;-))
<Ulli>  Pilot: dont touch _report.pap again ;-)
*  Pilot now proceeds with MS Office crap importing...
<Ulli>  crimso: even ibm works phonebooks shall work via dbase import, I have been
<Ulli>  told (was too busy to try on my own, the last days X-)).
<Pilot>  Ulli: i will zip the whole installation before experimenting further :)
<Ulli>  Pilot: X-)
<JT^>  What about input filters for the unmentionable W*RD?
<Ulli>  further database improvements since V.7.5 at Warpstock Europe has been
<Ulli>  (just a moment, JT :-)) the file management within the database:
<Ulli>  Papyrus BASE (the database part of Papyrus OFFICE) can handle every file
<Sector>  Hi mandie–––
<Ulli>  you want, and will call a player/viewer for it, if the file can be played
<Ulli>  somehow.
<mandie>  hi Sector!! :)
<KC>  Ulli, I have installed and I am up and running. Let's see... what is included in the office? I see database. Anything else?
<mandie>  sorry I'm late :(
*  Sector thinks mandie is taking lessons from Swanee...
<warspite>  Good Morning Mandie
<mandie>  warspite: g'morn in your time :)
<Ulli>  Hi, mandie - no problem, nothing to work left for today ... :-)
<mandie>  Ulli: glad you could make it tonight :)
<Ulli>  mandie: if we talk a little bid longer, I will see the sunrise out of my window :-)
<mandie>  Ulli: ah, we have a saying..The early bird gets the worm :)
<warspite>  Ulli: Does your database support Referential Integrity?
<madodel>  Can we please let Ulli finish the list of updates to version 8. :-)
<Ulli>  and I'm glad that we managed to have the version ready before that talk, so
<Ulli>  youll keep your stones in your pocket ;-)
<Ulli>  mandy: do you like worms? I dont ;-)
<mandie>  hehe
<Ulli>  warspite: do you mean that politically? ;-) means: please explain further.
<Ulli>  madodel: so you can use papyrus as a file manager for your videos, MP3, whatever .
<warspite>  I mean, if I update a relational database....
<Ulli>  Pictures, of course, papyrus can handle on its own without an external player.
<warspite>  ...those updates are automatically updated throughout the database
<Ulli>  warspite: ... than you can tell papyrus before, if the relational link
<Ulli>  means to refresh the destination dataset or not.
<Projects>  cool... it is fast!
<Ulli>  "or not" for the case of having an old invoice, where the tax office tells
<Ulli>  you that the adress must not be refreshed.
<warspite>  That's excellent.
<crimso>  Ulli: It's possible to access MySQL databases from Staroffice via a JAVA driver. Can I do that with Papyrus?
<Ulli>  projects: shall we slow it down? ;-)
<Ulli>  crimso: no.
<Projects>  Ulli: hehe... no way :)
<Ulli>  not yet. we will open the - at the moment - internal SQL structure within
<Ulli>  the next weeks or so, so that you can drive external databases with
<Ulli>  papyrus as a frontend, but this is "future music".
<Ulli>  we do have a fair, here in Germany, middle of June, so lets see what we
<Ulli>  will have, till then. There will be a version 8.5, I guess.
<Abraxas>  :-)
<Ulli>  By the way, we have a ...
<Ulli>  aehm ...
<Ulli>  purchase time protection ...
<Ulli>  aehm ...
<Ulli>  means: Oeff ;-) if you buy now, we don't want any more money for the next
<Ulli>  quarter of a year, so if there is a new version within that time,
<Pilot>  It did it, I just imported a Word8 document in Papyrus, and a really huge one!
<Ulli>  its free.
<Pilot>  Took only 2 sec...
<crimso>  Pilot: Yahoo!
<Ulli>  we are in negotiation with a bible company, because we asked them if
<Ulli>  we are allowed to take a bible document out of the internet from their
<Ulli>  web page to show how fast papyrus is with a 5 MB document of 1100 pages
<warspite>  Ulli: What do we need to do in order to try/buy your latest release?
<Ulli>  (200 MHz loaded in 10 sec, this bible version).
<mandie>  wow
<crimso>  Ulli: Search and ye shall find...
<Ulli>  ;-)
<Ulli>  warspite: Just go on our web page and take our SSL order form.
<Ulli>  some time later you will find three mails with the installation archives
<Ulli>  in your email account.
<Ulli>  :-)
<KC>  Hmmm .... I don't see how to bring up a spreadsheet.
<warspite>  Thank you, will do.
<Ulli>  ;-) (kc)
<Ulli>  its too simple, maybe? :-)
<Ulli>  we hate the concept of having an own page for your spreadsheet tables.
<Ulli>  so we put all energy in the tables you can use in papyrus WORD docs, to
<Ulli>  make them easy to handle, WYSIWYG, and mighty in calculation, as well.
<Ulli>  so open a new papyrus WORD doc, and click on the blue table symbol in the
<Ulli>  upper right corner of the toolbar.
<Pilot>  The more options I try the more I like Papyrus...
<Ulli>  pilot: thats the way it should be :-)
<mandie>  can you post a url
<Ulli>  kc: then you can do calculations to whatever field or field group you want,
<mandie>  for papyrus
<Ulli>  just as in an external spreadsheet.
<Ulli>  mandie: yes?
<mandie>  what's the url for the papyrus site?
<Projects>  damn, I can open a small .doc file, but can't open the larger file it came from
<Ulli>  ah. sorry, didnt read this, first. www.rom-logicware.com.
<mandie>  thx
<Pilot>  Ulli: which dictionary file to load? .clx or .tlx?
<Ulli>  projects: maybe this other one is fast-saved?
<Ulli>  pilot: both.
<Projects>  "Unknown error #-9"?
<Ulli>  clx is the "thats the stock" stuff, the other one is ascii and is meant as being additional.
<Ulli>  papyrus can handle 32 dictionaries at once.
<Projects>  Ulli: no idea. I extracted a page out of it some time ago (forget how I did that), and the single page loads fine. The whole document gives me that "unknown error" message though
<Ulli>  projects: #9 sounds like a MS Word doc being saved with the fast save option.
<Projects>  Ulli: any workaround?
<Ulli>  not clever to do so, from time to time even MS Word itself looses the ability to
<Ulli>  load such a DOC ...
<Ulli>  projects: workaround? Yes. give me the file (data protection garantueed, of course,
<Ulli>  and we will have a look.
<Ulli>  maybe tomorrow or in two days there will be a 8.18 with a little improvement -
<Ulli>  maybe it can load your doc, then. :-)
<mandie>  Ulli: any chance that you will make Warpstock this year?
<Ulli>  mandie: a big one, yes.
<Abraxas>  Ulli .. why don't you think about a good 8 hours of sleep, first :-)))
<mandie>  GREAT! :)
<Ulli>  I got it a little bit late that Warptech is a big holiday weekend in USA, so I have
<Ulli>  some trouble to catch a flight, but if I can, I even will be there, also.
<Projects>  Ulli: Ok, I managed to load it in StarOffice (after quite a bit of waiting I might add).
<mandie>  true OS/2 supporter!
<Ulli>  and Warpstock is a little bit easier to catch a flight.
<KC>  OK, I am playing with the table. Do you have to bring up a calculation field each time you want to enter an expression?
<Pilot>  Really, Ulli, I am sure it will take at least a week for all of us to learn how to use half of papyrus features so you can have a vacations until then :-)
<Ulli>  mandie: yep. :-)
<Ulli>  pilot, abraxas: who needs sleep? ;-)
<Abraxas>  [ ] * Abraxas does :-)
<Ulli>  this week the other main developer christian nieber is on to have sleep, next week
<Ulli>  i am. X-)
*  Pilot tosses another cigarette...
<crimso>  Ulli: oops, maybe you should think of a shorter rotation span
<Ulli>  projects: may be. star office has good abilities to load nearly every MS Word doc.
<Ulli>  but I think we get better with the quality, all over.
<Pilot>  Ulli: not Russian :(
<Ulli>  pilot: you like russian cigarettes? Really? ;-)
<Pilot>  Ulli: btw, just to complicate things, localized versions of MS Office have slightly changed .doc format
<Ulli>  crimso: its already tuesday, here ;-)
<Projects>  Ulli: I like Papyrus much more than star office already, even if it can't open that document :-) I *HATE[ ] * the Star Office interface.
<Pilot>  Ulli: French :))
<Pilot>  Ulli: Gitanes
<Ulli>  pilot: no problem. as i already said, papyrus is unicode enabled, internally, and it
<Ulli>  will be externally also, soon.
<mandie>  bad link
<mandie>  The requested URL /files/papd7os2.exe was not found on this server.
<mandie>  http://www.rom-logicware.com/files/papd7os2.exe
<Projects>  mandie: that's 'cause you were late! :)
<mandie>  :P :)
<Projects>  hehehe
<Ulli>  pilot: Hmmmm, i love gitanes, but i quit smoking three quarters of a year ago ...
<KC>  Ulli, the equation editor just came up in German ...
<Ulli>  mandie: youre on the GERMAN page ...
<Abraxas>  mandie .. try: http://www.rom-logicware.com/e_demos.htm
<Swanee>  mandie: It worked for the rest of us that showed up on time
<Pilot>  Ulli: so both Lotus SS and StarOffice failed to load majority of these docs at all, no matter if the text is actually in English
<mandie>  Swanee: you don't even want to go there :)
<Ulli>  on the first page, directly below the button row, i made a link to the demo page, the ENGLISH demo page ... ;-)
<Swanee>  hehe
<Projects>  Ulli: did that file go through to you?
<Pilot>  Ulli: I knew you are a strong man :-)
<mandie>  I'm d/l papodemo.exe but I wasn't sure that was the os2 version
<Ulli>  projects: aehm, i have to type like hell, at the moment, dont know ... X-)
<Pilot>  Ulli: btw, how much an additional papyrus Windows license will cost me?
<Projects>  Ulli: did you accept the dcc? :-) I can't tell with this client
<Ulli>  mandie: there only is an os2 version, at the moment. rest is for later ;-)
<mandie>  DUH! it says it is right on the page...I'll be quiet now :)
<Sector>  /ignore mandie
<Ulli>  projects: no, my irc client didn't. I'm new on that, so please forgive me X-).
<mandie>  LOL
<Ulli>  Its even better to put it in an email, because then i can give it directly to the
<Ulli>  right developer to handle that.
<Ulli>  sometimes this is christian, sometimes its me, sometimes others.
<Projects>  Ulli: ok, what's your email address, and I'll zip it up and send it.
<Ulli>  ulli@rom-logicware.com.
<warspite>  Ulli: Can I have an UK English doc. checked with a French Spellchecker c/w acutes, circumflexes etc?
<mandie>  WSeBHoss: g'evening
<Ulli>  kc, still waiting for more features?
<Swanee>  WSeBHoss!!!
<WSeBHoss>  hello everyone.
<crimso>  WSeBHoss: Did you update your machine? ;-)
<Ulli>  warspite: aehm, whats the sense in checking an English doc with French rules? I think
<Ulli>  I didn't got the question ...
<Ulli>  but you can do spellcheck rules in any language you have to every text you have.
<warspite>  My son is learning French...we have an English/Aust codepage.......
*  Pilot is trying in vain to reach the limit of zoom factor in Papyrus :-)
<Ulli>  By the way, we invented that background spell checking in 1993, where M$ is so proud of ... ;-)
<KC>  Ulli, I am still playing with the spreadsheet stuff. Is there a way
<KC>  to import data
<warspite>  He writes his document , then has it checked with (if neccessary) the symbols added.
<Ulli>  Pilot: around 5000% percent lots of graphic card drivers say "no" to that ... X-)
<Ulli>  kc: no. But VERY soon, within the next weeks, till that fair in June. One of our
<Projects>  Ulli: MS invented everything... but we understand :-)
<Ulli>  weakest points, i know.
<Ulli>  projects: the funny thing is that i got a strong excuse from the M$ developers who
<Pilot>  Ulli: my G-200 is stopping at 4688% :-)
<Swanee>  Projects: Except the internet... that was Gore's baby! :-)
<Ulli>  had stolen the idea
<Ulli>  on a CeBIT fair in Hannover. They stood in front of our booth with very long faces
<Ulli>  ;-)
<Projects>  hehehe
<Swanee>  Ulli: What did they say? "The devil made me do it?"
<Projects>  Swanee: c'mon, billy claims the internet is his :p
<KC>  Well, you have to have room to grow. Overall, I am quite pleased so far. It is great to have this addition to os/2.
<Ulli>  swanee: no, they told us that they just showed this in a developer conference, and
<Ulli>  one year later ms word came with it as a "brand new" idea ... ;-)
<Ulli>  kc: thanks :-)
<madodel>  I hear that someday bill gates will have the wonderful inovation of voice integrated into the operating system
<mandie>  what a unique idea!
<Ulli>  kc: another upgrade feature for version 8 was a database table global search and replace.
<Ulli>  madodel: and then he will tell that ms word is the first word processor which integrated this abilities ... ,-)
<crimso>  madodel: yes, and it will tell you "Malfunction!" all the time.
<Projects>  madodel: hrm... he can have one of my copies of Warp 4 and try it out before he innovates :p
<mandie>  great! a talking BSOD
<Projects>  hahahahahaha
<Ulli>  kc: sticky notes for fast notices on your text, also a good way to communicate with
<crimso>  Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!
<Projects>  "You're screwed!"
<Ulli>  somebody else about the text document.
<Swanee>  madodel: I saw that too. I am just waiting for the cooa crowd to say how wonderful it is considering how they downplayed it when OS/2 got it in '96.
<Projects>  hahaha
<KC>  Ulli: I just imported a fairly large MS Word document. Gee, not bad. It even recognized a table accurately.
<Ulli>  you'll find the sticky notes as the most down below part of that graphic object dialog, found with the button in
<Ulli>  the upper right corner of the toolbar.
<Ulli>  yes, kc, papyrus handles tables with care. :-) we LOVE tables. :-)
<Pilot>  KC: yes, it works fine here too, better than LSS and StarOffice... and much much faster
<warspite>  Ulli: Am downloading demo now. Thanks..... Can I paste a database table straight into a WP document?
<Ulli>  warspite: aehm ... in which format? no, i'm afraid ...
<Ulli>  we do have a totally different concept of database export.
<KC>  Ulli: I clicked on the sticky note, now what?
<Ulli>  it's based on WYSIWYG report templates, which are somewhat normal papyrus documents,
<Ulli>  with variable PROGRAMMABLE place holders for the data fields.
<Projects>  KC: me too... now what? :-)
<warspite>  In .DBF format. i.e. after making a table in DeScribe, I can paste a DBExpert table/query
<warspite>  Would I do the same here?
<KC>  Sticky notes - oh, I see, you draw a box.
<Ulli>  Ah. Yes, should be possible. I switch my "no" to a "yes, possible".
<Projects>  KC: ah, thanks :)
<warspite>  Thanks
<KC>  Hmmm ... I am starting to like this Papyrus thing.
<Ulli>  kc, everytime it gets quiet i go on with telling the new features of version 8, ok?
<KC>  Ulli: good plan.
<Ulli>  kc: careful - you may get addicted :-)
*  Pilot already does :)
<Pilot>  Ulli: btw, how much an additional papyrus Windows license will cost me?
<Ulli>  Brand new - to be honest, it was the best way to handle different languages - is that
<madodel>  How do I move the floating tool bar from the middle of the screen?
<Ulli>  we do the help in papyrus-own format.
<Ulli>  pilot: the half.
<Ulli>  if bought within two weeks or so together with the first version, little bit less.
<Projects>  madodel: I used Alt-F7 :)
<Pilot>  Ulli: but probably i won't need Windows any more now...
<madodel>  Projects That worked :-)
<Pilot>  Ulli: :)
<Ulli>  pilot: yes, if we can make somebody stay away from Windows and MS Word, then we're lucky :-)
*  Projects wonders what the cost of Papyrus will be (or already is?)
<Ulli>  projects: it already is. :-)
<Projects>  :)
<Ulli>  $99,- for Papyrus WORD (word processor, DTP, integrated spreadsheet)
<KC>  Ulli: the insert [ ] math formula (EqEd) dialog is in German instead of english, or is it just me?
<Projects>  anybody wanna buy my far_too_expensive copy of StarOffice? :-)
<Ulli>  Yes. Chris walked away, tonight, and he had the older English version of that we
<Ulli>  got for making the German translation. X-)
<Ulli>  So I just wanted to have it complete, but one of the very next versions will have
<Ulli>  our EqEd licence in real English - sorry for that, my fauld.
<Ulli>  aeh, fault.
<KC>  Ulli: not a big deal, just wanted to make sure you caught it.
<Ulli>  projects: and Papyrus OFFICE, which is an integration of our relational database Papyrus BASE
<Ulli>  together with Papyrus WORD, costs $ 149,-. Of course students get it for $25,- less.
<Projects>  this thing actually makes me want to use a word processor (something which I never use normally)
<Pilot>  KC: where did you find insert formula command?
<Ulli>  kc, did you got what I told about the HyperOFFICE abilities? Whe are just proud of that X-)
<Pilot>  KC: Ok, i see...
<Pilot>  Ulli: you should give us some more time, i told you :-)
<KC>  Ulli: no I missed the hyperoffice stuff. Do you want to say it again?
* *[ ] * Signoff Ulli (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<Ulli2>  back again, got lost ... ;-)
* *[ ] * MODE change [+o Ulli2] by Sector
<Sector>  At least you found your way back
<Ulli2>  somehow ... ;-)
<madodel>  Once it is edited, a log will be posted on the VOICE site.
<Ulli2>  at miminum my "clone" ... (Ulli TWO ... ,-))
<Projects>  should be "Ulli/2" :)
<Ulli2> 
<Ulli2>  how long normally such sessions long?
<Ulli2>  aeh, last?
<Sector>  No time limit
<Ulli2>  does not mean that i want to go, its fun ... :-)
<madodel>  It is late where you are at. We should wrap things up soon
<Ulli2>  only being curious ... ;-)
<Ulli2>  normal work time.
<warspite>  Ulli: What time is it where you arre?
<Swanee>  Ulli2: Here is what you missed... Ulli: no I missed the hyperoffice stuff. Do you want to say it again?
<crimso>  madodel: late? you mean early!
<Sector>  Not late, early
<Ulli2>  I only feel bad about a work day when it goes longer than 5 a.m. ... X-)
<Sector>  **[ ] * TIME (Ulli2): Tue May 16 03:18:16 2000
<Ulli2>  crimso: late. medium. ;-)
<Ulli2>  warspite: 3:18 ...
*  Swanee say 3am is the best time to get any "real" work done :-)
<Ulli2>  swanee: yes, hyperoffice.
<Swanee>  hehe, I get it :-)
<Ulli2>  just like normal text hyperlinking, you can tell a text passage to be hyperlinked
<Ulli2>  to a dataset of your database, just the way you do a relational database link between
<warspite>  Ulli: It's 0920 here in Western Australia. I admire your stamina.
<Ulli2>  two datasets.
<KC>  Ulli: Wow, I just figured out this hyperoffice link. Outstanding!!!!!
<Ulli2>  warspite: 0920 is shocking early. ;-)
<Ulli2>  kc: its simply unique O:-).
<Ulli2>  kc: honestly, i don't know any other program to do so.
<warspite>  Got the kids off to school...house is quiet
<KC>  Very, very nice...
<Ulli2>  best thing to use is literature cites, specially for scientific texts.
<Ulli2>  just care for your citations when you WRITE them.
<KC>  I am a little blown away here...
<Ulli2>  cite your professor, or a collegue, and link this cite to the "science paper" dataset in your database.
<Pilot>  Ulli2: what's the difference between HyperOFFICE link and hypertext link?
<Ulli2>  when your work is ready, you're just two mouse clicks away from your literature chapter, formatted as YOU want it.
<Pilot>  Ulli2: the Office link can use database and the other one not?
<Ulli2>  pilot: hyperlink is normal stuff, as in html.
<Ulli2>  HyperOFFICE does the same, equally simple, but is linked to a dataset - or, next level,
<Ulli2>  to a search question, which is done freshly everytime you do (click) the HyperOFFICE
<Ulli2>  link in your text.
<KC>  Ulli: I don't think I have seen anything like this before. Maybe I don't get out enough.
<Projects>  hehehe
<mandie>  I don't want to reboot and miss anything :)
<Projects>  mandie: so don't... it works without rebooting
<Ulli2>  So if you want your secretary to do the right phonecalls in the morning, just write down a Papyrus WORD letter with the correct links to the datasets to be phonecalled.
<mandie>  guess you can't believe everything you read :)
<Ulli2>  the stupiest secretary can handle that ;-)
<DSOMber1>  Hello all.
*  Projects begs to differ... I had a secretary once that could screw up taking out the garbage :p
<Ulli2>  Or when you want to make a CD expert book, you can write your text, and as further
<mandie>  didn't work here
<KC>  Let's be kind to the secretaries :-)
<Ulli2>  explanations you can HyperOFFICE-link to explaining datasets.
<Ulli2>  for example it could make lots of sense to write a book about good Malt Whisky, as a
<Ulli2>  Scottland tour, and in your travel story you can join to datasets about destilleries and/or whiskys! ;-)
<Ulli2>  very important solution, isn't it? ;-)
<Projects>  Swanee and Abraxas would have to taste it first... not just read about it :-)
<crimso>  Ulli: Cheers!
<Ulli2>  kc: of course, i only mean that few one common to MS Word ... ;-)
<KC>  Ulli: Ok, so if you want to send your document to someone, you send the database file too right?
<Ulli2>  projects: we can handle all kind of files in Papyrus BASE, instead of liquids and smells ... ;-)
<Projects>  :)
<mandie>  brb...reboot
<Ulli2>  kc: yes. to the fair in June I already mentioned, there will be a "Papyrus VIEW".
<Sector>  And she said she didn't want to reboot...
<Ulli2>  this is a freeware version of Papyrus, being able of handling all Papyrus WORD (so also MS Word, ASCII, RTF, ...) and
<Ulli2>  Papyrus BASE (also dBase and so on) documents. Together WITH HyperOFFICE abilities.
<Ulli2>  Means, if you want to make an expert theme CD, feel free to use Papyrus VIEW for that.
<Ulli2>  For editing, of course, you need a normal Papyrus ;-).
<KC>  Ulli: I see where you are going ... wonderful idea.
<Ulli2>  For bigger, commercial projects, we want to have a little obulus, at minimum a version of whatever
<crimso>  Ulli: Good idea. I think that will help spreading the program.
<Ulli2>  is made with it to be able to show around ;-)
<Ulli2>  crimso: thats the idea.
<Ulli2>  and it can spread the CONCEPT, also, what we would like.
<Ulli2>  we came to the idea when i heard a talk about a solution made by the Max Planck institute
<Ulli2>  (quite famous adress, here in Europe), about a software catalogue they made for a
<Ulli2>  screw company. 250,000.- DM, 125,000.- $.
<Ulli2>  And Papyrus in its actual state can do the important 98% of this abilities.
<Ulli2>  I told the owner of the company, standing around there when the MPI guys had there
<Ulli2>  talk at a software conference. He lost lots of blood in his face. good for a role
<Ulli2>  in the next dracula movie. ;-)
<Ulli2>  ah, yes, kc ;-), we improved the relational database abilities of Papyrus BASE so far
<Ulli2>  that you can use it as a more than simple ...
<Ulli2>  uuh ... Warenwirtschaftssystem ... ;-)
<Ulli2>  aeh ...
<Ulli2>  something you can write invoices with, based on an adress stock and an article stock.
<Ulli2>  ahm.
<Ulli2>  ;-)
<Ulli2>  Whats the name for such kind of programs`?
<Ulli2>  What I want to say is that the example database of Papyrus BASE is a simple, but easily
<Pilot>  Ulli2: that means you can do with Papyrus View what Adobe only tries to imitate with the latest PDF versions
<Ulli2>  expandable dealer/trading system.
<Ulli2>  pilot: yes.
<Ulli2>  ;-)
<KC>  Well, you knocked about 3 zeros of the price tag. I guess that would make the blood drain out of his face ;)
<Pilot>  Ulli2: btw, what compiler do you use for OS/2 version?
<Ulli2>  kc: yes ... ;-) Poor boy ... He thought he got it cheap, because it was an institute and not a software company ...
<Pilot>  Ulli2: to build papyrus
<Ulli2>  ibm visual c, NOT version 4 ;-)
<Pilot>  Ulli2: i see :)
<crimso>  Ulli: thank god!
<Ulli2>  we do it in simple "C" without any "++" - that makes the speed and the little code.
<Ulli2>  we will carefully try to test C++ routines, if they wouldn't link huge libraries
<Ulli2>  for two lines of code X-)
<KC>  Ulli: but if you added about 50 more megabytes to the product, you could charge more :)
<Projects>  hahaha
<Swanee>  KC: LOL!
<Ulli2>  kc: ;-) yes ... first we loved to come out with two floppy discs, but later on we learned
<Ulli2>  that people may run away when seing this (CAN'T be good ... ;-)).
*  Swanee thinks KC must be a marketing guy in training :-)
<KC>  Ulli: you could even call it an operating system!
<Ulli2>  What? kc?
*  Projects always installs Opera browser on people's win machines when they ask him to "fix" things... can carry it on one floppy :p
<Ulli2>  I think Star Office IS an operating system. Thats not the way we want to go.
<Ulli2>  Papyrus is able to run as a single exe file with only a few lacks.
<KC>  No, Star Office takes OVER my operating system. I can't do anything after it is loaded.
<Projects>  Star Office is bloated so that windows users will buy it
<Ulli2>  till half a year ago, it was possible to start this papyrus.exe from a floppy disc.
<Projects>  oh, wait... it's free now isn't it :(
<Ulli2>  kc: yes, so SO is a Meta-operating system ... ;-)
<Ulli2>  projects: depends on what "free" means ...
<Sector>  wb mandie––
<crimso>  Ulli: yes, you pay with lots of RAM...
<mandie>  ok, what am i doing wrong...go shows PAPYRUSD.EXE is running but I have no program ?????
<Ulli2>  free to decide to join or leave operating systems? ;-)
<Projects>  Ulli2: free if you want to sit there for 6 hours and download it...
<mandie>  and it's not in the Windows List
<Ulli2>  mandie: what did you do last?
<mandie>  rebooted
<KC>  Can you imagine SO being delivered by email?
<Ulli2>  kc: ;-)
<Projects>  KC: no thanks :)
<Ulli2>  mandie: and then - (by the way, you dont have to) you started? the icon?
<mandie>  I started the Demo icon...
<Ulli2>  and it did nothing?
<mandie>  nothing
<Ulli2>  hm ...
<mandie>  so I ran go from cmd line and it shows the process
<Projects>  mandie: another desktop perhaps (you are running PC/2 aren't you?)
<mandie>  projects: I'm running pc/2 but not with virtual desktops
<Ulli2>  did you try to directly start the papyrus.exe out of its folder window also?
<mandie>  pc/2 just popped up with an error msg though :)
<mandie>  let me disable pc/2 and reboot and see what happens
<Ulli2>  try the papyrus.exe directly, first, please.
<Projects>  mandie: might be pc/2... but its working fine here (and I use the virtual desktops)
<Ulli2>  interesting to me. :-)
<mandie>  ok
<KC>  Ulli and Gang: I am signing off to let you work out technical details. Nice job Ulli! Keith
<Ulli2>  any californian guy here? I slurp a good californian red wine, between the lines ...
<mandie>  maybe that's my problem...I don't have a papyrus.exe
<Ulli2>  good stuff, that ... ;-)
<thepab>  well thank you
<mandie>  just papyrusd.exe
<Ulli2>  thanks, keith :-)
<mandie>  and that's running
<Ulli2>  mandie: sorry, thats what i meant
<Ulli2>  papyrusd.exe is the demo
*  Sector is in California
<mandie>  nope, no go with that
<mandie>  let me kill the process and try again
*  Projects isn't in california, but have family there
<Ulli2>  sector, Gallo wine OK? :-)
<mandie>  nope, can't kill it :(
<warspite>  Try Margaret River...Good wine, so I'm told.
<Sector>  kill -9 mandie
<mandie>  sector: doesn't work with go
<Sector>  Nope sure didn't, the mandie process is still here...
<Sector>  Hi Blackbird
<mandie>  hehe
<Blackbird>  Hi Sector
<mandie>  ok, I'll disable pc/2 and see what happens..brb
<Ulli2>  hm - sorry, mandie ... would love to know what happened exactly, so maybe we can
<Ulli2>  do something against it ...
<Ulli2>  ah. too late for mandie. X-)
<Projects>  cool... just exported my quote form from ibm works to word 6 format, and imported it into papyrus... everything came over except for a line...
<Pilot>  btw, there's lot of useful info in Papyrus FAQ... what happened to mandie?
<Projects>  and it took half a second to draw a new line once I found the tool :)
<Ulli2>  so, guys (and ladies, if there are some there), of course not at the moment, because
<Sector>  mandie went to reboot
<Ulli2>  you all have to learn more about papyrus, first, but later on we would love
<Ulli2>  to know what you all think how to improve Papyrus.
<Pilot>  Ulli2: where can we send bugreports/suggestions? :-)
*  Projects already sent one :)
<Ulli2>  This is half of our "income" - we love to talk to people; even on fairs.
<Ulli2>  we do have some more frustrated employees, who hate that Chris and me are going to
<Ulli2>  all the fairs, ;-), but we love it.
<Ulli2>  so your comments are welcome at WarpTech (I hope), at Warpstock, US and Europe,
<Ulli2>  and, Pilot, at VOICE sessions (thanks again, abraxas and you all :-) - big fun, here)
<Ulli2>  and simply, and one of my most intensive works, by sending an email to
<Ulli2>  Ulli@rom-logicware.com, if you want to talk to me, or to support@rom-logicware.com,
<Ulli2>  if you are afraid that I might be away, travelling around the world, to Phoenix,
*  Projects hopes Ulli will come for another speakup sometime soon...
<Ulli2>  for example ;-)
<Pilot>  Ulli2: congratulations on a great product!
<Ulli2>  Why not. If VOICE can "stand" me another time ;-), I would be glad to do so. :-)
<Projects>  heh... we can "stand" it :)
<warspite>  I haven't tried it yet, but congrats from here as well!
<Pilot>  Ulli2: but be prepared to get lots of e-mails - the better the product the more customers whant from it :-)
<Ulli2>  pilot: we DO want that! :-)
*  Projects wants nothing more... papyrus already has way more than I need
<Ulli2>  warspite: Thanks! I told you all a lot about Papyrus, so you already now it. :-)
<Ulli2>  the rest is easy. :-)
<warspite>  You bet.
<Ulli2>  projects: yes.
<Projects>  and there's a built-in tutorial
<Blackbird>  Sorry to enter so late....I just have a quick one....does it do html?
<Ulli2>  blackbird: yes. html 3.2
<Projects>  Blackbird: and homl :)
<Ulli2>  with a lot html 4, but 3.2 is what we grant.
<Ulli2>  aehm?
*  Projects whispers to Ulli... "hyperoffice" markup language :)
<Ulli2>  so for example we miss frames, which we dont find that important.
<Blackbird>  me either
<Projects>  frames are evil anyway
<Ulli2>  first, its easy to make them outside papyrus, and second, the arent that user-friendly
<Ulli2>  from the viewpoint of "stolen" browser space.
<Ulli2>  good excuse, isnt it? x-)
<Blackbird>  totally agree here
<warspite>  Frames are the bane of WebEx
<Ulli2>  no, its not worth the work, frames - if sbd. needs them, are done quite easy in an ascii editor.
<Ulli2>  little bit more sad i am that we dont have form elements, so they also cant be done
<Ulli2>  by papyrus.
<Blackbird>  I like that one....sbd.....have to remember it....
<Ulli2>  so far the weak points - but i guess you never have built up table pages that far
<Ulli2>  as in papyrus.
<crimso>  I like nested tables
<Ulli2>  pictures, with lots of anchor possibilities, for example anchored as a character, hush, hush, in a table field, ready.
<Ulli2>  cell fusion, columns, rows ...
<Ulli2>  crimso: tables in tables?
<Ulli2>  I never needed. I always get every table structure i want in less than two minutes
<Ulli2>  with papyrus.
<crimso>  yes, in HTML. That's great for a nice design without graphics.
<Ulli2>  by the way, if you try the demo, try the simplicity of picture using.
<Ulli2>  go into the picture catalogue, which holds all pictures of a document, zoom it separately
*  Projects has tried the simplicity of line objects :)
<Ulli2>  to the main document, grap pieces of a pic, just drag it into the text doc - or into another window.
<Ulli2>  rotate, resize, group, anchor as a character or on the beginning of a paragraph.
<Ulli2>  lots of fun.
<Ulli2>  and second, try the tutorial chapter about our discontinuous blocks.
<Ulli2>  mark text blocks with double clicks, hold down Control, and mark additional blocks.
<Ulli2>  And do with them whatever you want - drag them around, even between docs, change their style, ...
<Ulli2>  so where we love to put lots of energy in are the daily use features.
<Projects>  if you have a sticky note in your document, will it show up in the printed output?
<Ulli2>  These aren't the most impressive things in the first impression of Papyrus, but
<Ulli2>  later on you become addicted. ;-)
<Ulli2>  projects: no. Its a note, having nothing to do with the real doc.
<Projects>  cool... great idea :)
<Ulli2>  OK, birds are already singing, sun is rising, I already had my second glass of red wine, so we should
<Ulli2>  come to the last ten minutes or so, to the last questions, I feel :-)
<Ulli2>  (if there are any left ;-))
<Sector>  Ok, any last requestsó
<Ulli2>  someone said "tutorial" a few paragraphs above.
<Blackbird>  the URL is>>>>again sorry for being so late
<thepab>  what do you do when it can't find any fonts....?
<Projects>  yeah, me :)
<Projects>  www.rom-logicware.com
<Blackbird>  thanks
<Ulli2>  because this is new, I would love constructive critics about that a lot.
*  Pilot has set away! (auto away after idling [15 min]) [Log:ON] .gz.
<Projects>  thepab: it can find them... you just have to scroll through the list
<thepab>  every time i hit one it says font family not found
<Ulli2>  do we have done good with the structure, or didn't you find some topics you searched for?
<thepab>  i got way too many and they all show on the list, but don't work
<Ulli2>  documentation is as important as a good program, we feel.
<Projects>  hmm... mine came up just fine once I discovered that they're actually in the list
<Ulli2>  thepab: what sort of fonts?
<Ulli2>  where do they come from?
<mandie>  hmmmm
<thepab>  font not found default used...
<Projects>  Ulli2: so far I've only glanced at the tutorial (trying the tricks and tips here and there)... so far so good
<thepab>  some standard, like helvetica
<Sector>  It's mandie–––
<mandie>  Ulli: is there supposed to be a entry in the config.sys?
<mandie>  I've uninstalled and reinstalled and have pc/2 disabled
<mandie>  does it have a problem with xfolder?
<thepab>  arial
<Projects>  arial works for me
<Ulli2>  papyrus internally works with a very high resolution, maybe some fonts dont like that?
<Projects>  mandie: I have xfolder too... no problem
<thepab>  then screen starts to corrupt
<mandie>  hmm
<Ulli2>  I heard such behaviour about some SO font CD fonts ...
<Ulli2>  XFOLDER! mandie, thats it.
<thepab>  and every place you click the error message arrives
<Ulli2>  fonts are little programs.
<mandie>  ok, let me disable and try without xfolder...brb
<Ulli2>  so they can "crash" as well.
<Projects>  Ulli2: xfolder? I use xfolder, and papyrus works just fine
<Ulli2>  mandie: just a second.
<Projects>  too late again :)
<Ulli2>  thepab: often its only one font, that smashes. hard to find, I know, but its even
<Ulli2>  worth to wipe out such a font.
<Sector>  mandie is quick
<thepab>  hmmm.... got over 300 fonts
<Projects>  thepab: ever hear of FontFolder?
<thepab>  that is what i am using
<Ulli2>  papyrus makes intensive use of fonts - very high internal resolution - so you EVER have WYSIWYG,
<Projects>  hrm... same here
<Ulli2>  never a line break in the printout which wasnt on the screen, lots of other things.
<thepab>  yes, but how do I find the bad one.... it doesn't like any of them
<Ulli2>  mandie - there is, AFAIR, an explanation list for xfolder, isnt it?
<Ulli2>  put papyrus in, there, that solved an equally problem with a customer here in Germany.
<crimso>  Ulli2: you mean an exception list? No there is none.
<Projects>  Ulli2: mandie's not here, and I believe you mean "exemption list" :)
<Ulli2>  thepab - intervall using.
<thepab>  intervall?
<Ulli2>  projects: yes. getting tired. this early bird is singing directly under my window, here, saying "go to sleep" X-)
<warspite>  Ulli: My system is *fairly[ ] * vanilla. Will report if I have troubles.
<Ulli2>  and I think he's right. It's 4:23, already ... :-)
<thepab>  finally closed it as it got really funked up looking.
<Projects>  Ulli2: need a gun? :-)
<Ulli2>  thepab: de-install half of the fonts. If everything works fine, use all the others.
<thepab>  good thought... i play some more
<Ulli2>  projects: whatfor?
<Ulli2>  did i miss sth.?
<Projects>  Ulli2: to get rid of that annoying bird :)
<Ulli2>  thepab: then again half your installed fonts. with this method you rapidly will find the bad guys, ah, fonts.
<Ulli2>  ah, its a ... Nachtigall ... aeh ... that one singing for Romeo and Juliet, also ...
<Ulli2>  what is it called in English?
*  Swanee thinks Projects would have a great time here, at night, with a six-pack, a gun and good headlights... :-)
<Projects>  nightingale
<thepab>  now you are using logic ulli, for shame
<Sector>  Hi persell
<Projects>  Swanee: don't do guns or sixpacks :)
<thepab>  well, i returned to the base font set and loaded ok.....
<persell>  How about packs of sixguns?
<Ulli2>  thepab: may be, I'm tired, but where? ;-)
<Projects>  hehehe
<thepab>  well... base+ (77 fonts)
<Projects>  that's about my base too
<Ulli2>  thepab: and that works fine?
<thepab>  yep... wheeeew
<Swanee>  Hi persell!!!
<Ulli2>  ok, try that intervall schachtelung (sorry, dont know the term), then ...
<thepab>  i shouldn't need that many fonts anyway, LOL
<Ulli2>  mathematical term I described above - does anybody know the word for it?
<thepab>  hmmm, 25 years since my last german classes
<persell>  Hi Wayne! Hows it going?
<Ulli2>  thepab: youre right, too many fonts are ugly ;-)
*  Swanee thinks Ulli2 uses english well enough to make us think it is almost his native tongue
<persell>  do the fonts take up a lot of resource?
<thepab>  they can
<thepab>  but hadn't done much to my machine yet
<thepab>  now if that could just fix Netscrape
<Ulli2>  OK, guys, lets talk some time later on this month or the next one again about birds and guns and maybe Papyrus, also ...
*  Projects never loaded them all at once, so no idea... only use the libraries that I need at the time
<thepab>  thanks ulli:)
<Ulli2>  What about qutting for today (tonight)? :-)
<persell>  I recall the days of Win 3.1 and too many fonts
<Projects>  Ulli2: :-) You'll be welcome anytime
<crimso>  Ulli2: Thanks for coming!
<Ulli2>  OK, so big thanks to you all, it was a pleasure to be welcomed that friendly. lots of fun! :-)
<Ulli2>  I hope you all will have same amounts of fun, as well, with Papyrus! :-)
<Sector>  Ulli2, thanks for stopping in for the chat. We might just have to schedule another one with you...
<Ulli2>  If you have any questions, ideas, if you just would love to talk to me - it's Ulli@rom-logicware.com. :-)
<Swanee>  Thank you Ulli2! We are happy that everything worked out so well with the speakup AND the release. Good luck!
<Ulli2>  sector: Yes, I would love to! :-)
<Ulli2>  swanee: thanks! :-) OK guys, have a nice time, I really heard my bed calling ...
<Ulli2>  "Uuuullliiiii ..." X-)
<Swanee>  Night Ulli2
<Blackbird>  sweet dreams
<Projects>  goodnight Ulli... or rather good morning :)
<warspite>  Thanks again Ulli. Will be in contact. Don't let the bed bugs bite!
<Sector>  So long Ulli2, don't get too much sleep you'll need to keep up the good work
<crimso>  now let the bird sing you to sleep
<Ulli2>  So - good night to you and thanks to you all for a nice discussion! :-) (Leaving :-))