SpeakUp with Ulli Ramps of R.O.M. Logicware (Topic: Papyrus 8) from 05/15/2000

<Ulli>	OK, so "Hi" to everybody, now its official :-)
<Ulli>	I am one of the main developers and pres. of R.O.M. logicware GmbH,
<Ulli>	(corp.), which is the company doing Papyrus since 1992, since 1995 for OS/2.
<Ulli>	since 1997 for WIN - only to make clear that we haven't been on WIN
<Ulli>	before OS/2 :-)
<Ulli>	Papyrus OFFICE Demo Version 8.17 OS/2 is out on our homepage
<Ulli>	http://www.rom-logicware.com tonight, so you all can have a look on it
<Ulli>	while listening.
<Ulli>	The demo archive is only 2.7 MB ...
<Pilot>	Ulli: "OS/2 signals to Papyrus in system call..." error messages all the time now after I deleted papyrus.ini :(((
<Ulli>	So I have to thank the guys of the VOICE for the invitation to this session :-)
<Pilot>	Looks like I'd better to reinstall
<Ulli>	Pilot: Hm ...
<Pilot>	Abraxas: be VERY careful :)
<Ulli>	And when you try to make a new papyrus.ini by selecting "save options"
<Ulli>	in the "options" menu?
<Pilot>	Ulli: errors fly again :(
<Pilot>	Ulli: it kinda works after i dismiss all of the error windows tho
<Ulli>	just trying the same, no problem ...
<KC>	Hi All
<Ulli>	which one of the two options did you select, pilot?
<Pilot>	Ulli: but i'd probably try re-installing
<Ulli>	Hi, KC :-)
<Abraxas>	Pilot what sort of errors are you getting?
<Pilot>	Ulli: Options->Save options
<Ulli>	pilot: just keep your fingers away from _report.pap ;-)
<Pilot>	Ulli: is there another one?
<KC>	Sorry I am a little late, did the session start yet
<Ulli>	another what?
<Pilot>	Abraxas: something about DevCap and some weird code after
<Ulli>	KC: Just a minor problem fixing, but you may interfere with any questions :-)
<Projects>	KC: yes, it started. Go sit in the corner :-)
<crimso>	Ulli: Can you tell us a bit about the new features? I saw the session at
<Pilot>	Abraxas: DevQueryCaps UNK 207 C E
<crimso>	Warpstock Europe last year and I'm especially interested in the database part.
<Ulli>	pilot: ah. looks like problems with russian codepages. I already told
*	*[ ] * madodel has changed the topic to (Speakup with Ulli Ramp of R.O.M.Logicware in Progress)
<Abraxas>	Pilot OK ... I haerd of that ....but I haven't seen it
<Ulli>	you that we will have a look at proper codepage handling within the next
<Ulli>	weeks, OK? :-)
<Ulli>	UNK is a unicode message.
<Pilot>	Ulli: no prob, i'd love to be a beta-tester :)
<KC>	Ulli, the announcement in the newsgroup said you are shipping. Is that true?
<Ulli>	crimso: new since? :-)
<Ulli>	kc: Yes. I did it two hours ago. :-)
<Pilot>	KC: i even have the darn thing installed :)
<crimso>	Ulli: new in version 8...
<Pilot>	KC: half an hour ago :))
<KC>	Great, Is the demo ready yet?
<Ulli>	pilot: you can be sure that we will do much more unicode improvement, because
*	Projects is downloading it, but it'll be well after the meeting before it finally gets here (slooow dialup)
<Ulli>	we plan a Japanese and an Arabian/Hebrew version, so we have to :-)
<Ulli>	kc: demo is on our homepage.
<Ulli>	www.rom-logicware.com.
<Projects>	www.rom-logicware.com
<Pilot>	Ulli: OK, so really count me in for any testing/bug reports
<KC>	Wonderfull, here I go to it ...
<Ulli>	I already do, pilot :-)
<Pilot>	Ulli: or any help i can provide
<Ulli>	russian version, maybe?
<madodel>	You will support Right to Left entry?
<Ulli>	madodel: we already do.
<Ulli>	you can give a paragraph the property that text is written from left to right.
<madodel>	Cool, didn't know that
<Ulli>	but as I already said to our russian friend pilot, we have to improve our
*	*[ ] * Signoff phil (phil)
<Ulli>	unicode support
*	*[ ] * madodel has changed the topic to (Speakup with Ulli Ramps of R.O.M.Logicware in Progress)
<Ulli>	so that hebrew, arabian, russian stuff is handled properly.
<Ulli>	at the moment papyrus internally is already unicode enabled fully, but
<Ulli>	we have to set the hook for OS/2.
<Pilot>	Ulli: we have a special team of developers set up here to help other developers to implement support Russian in their products (if they wish of course)
<crimso>	Ulli: new features in version 8 compared to 7.5(?) - the one presented at Warpstock Europe
<Ulli>	we wish - why not. :-)
<Pilot>	Ulli: i can get in contact with them, since i am not a unicode expert myself
<Ulli>	sorry, crimso, lots of questions here :-)
<Ulli>	new since 7.5: the database has become relational, totally. lots of tiny
<Ulli>	add ons to the database. calculation possibilities, string manipulations
<Ulli>	in the database and in the integrated spreadsheet.
<Ulli>	HyperOFFICE, of course.
<Ulli>	does anybody know a wordprocessor being able of setting a special type of
<Ulli>	hyperlinks directly out of a text document to a dataset of your database?
<warspite>	Good morning Ulli, all: Has your database got a .DBF Import feature?
<Ulli>	papyrus can. We think of that as being new, so we gave it a name:
<Ulli>	HyperOFFICE.
<Ulli>	warspite: yes.
<warspite>	You beauty!
<Ulli>	simply yes. we already tested it with several dbase derivats, and they
<crimso>	Ulli: sounds good!
<Pilot>	Ulli: hurray, reinstall cured all errors!
<Ulli>	all worked (OK, some of them after some hours of work O;-))
<Ulli>	Pilot: dont touch _report.pap again ;-)
*	Pilot now proceeds with MS Office crap importing...
<Ulli>	crimso: even ibm works phonebooks shall work via dbase import, I have been
<Ulli>	told (was too busy to try on my own, the last days X-)).
<Pilot>	Ulli: i will zip the whole installation before experimenting further :)
<Ulli>	Pilot: X-)
<JT^>	What about input filters for the unmentionable W*RD?
<Ulli>	further database improvements since V.7.5 at Warpstock Europe has been
<Ulli>	(just a moment, JT :-)) the file management within the database:
<Ulli>	Papyrus BASE (the database part of Papyrus OFFICE) can handle every file
<Sector>	Hi mandieÐÐÐ
<Ulli>	you want, and will call a player/viewer for it, if the file can be played
<Ulli>	somehow.
<mandie>	hi Sector!! :)
<KC>	Ulli, I have installed and I am up and running. Let's see... what is included in the office? I see database. Anything else?
<mandie>	sorry I'm late :(
*	Sector thinks mandie is taking lessons from Swanee...
<warspite>	Good Morning Mandie
<mandie>	warspite: g'morn in your time :)
<Ulli>	Hi, mandie - no problem, nothing to work left for today ... :-)
<mandie>	Ulli: glad you could make it tonight :)
<Ulli>	mandie: if we talk a little bid longer, I will see the sunrise out of my window :-)
<mandie>	Ulli: ah, we have a saying..The early bird gets the worm :)
<warspite>	Ulli: Does your database support Referential Integrity?
<madodel>	Can we please let Ulli finish the list of updates to version 8. :-)
<Ulli>	and I'm glad that we managed to have the version ready before that talk, so
<Ulli>	youll keep your stones in your pocket ;-)
<Ulli>	mandy: do you like worms? I dont ;-)
<mandie>	hehe
<Ulli>	warspite: do you mean that politically? ;-) means: please explain further.
<Ulli>	madodel: so you can use papyrus as a file manager for your videos, MP3, whatever .
<warspite>	I mean, if I update a relational database....
<Ulli>	Pictures, of course, papyrus can handle on its own without an external player.
<warspite>	...those updates are automatically updated throughout the database
<Ulli>	warspite: ... than you can tell papyrus before, if the relational link
<Ulli>	means to refresh the destination dataset or not.
<Projects>	cool... it is fast!
<Ulli>	"or not" for the case of having an old invoice, where the tax office tells
<Ulli>	you that the adress must not be refreshed.
<warspite>	That's excellent.
<crimso>	Ulli: It's possible to access MySQL databases from Staroffice via a JAVA driver. Can I do that with Papyrus?
<Ulli>	projects: shall we slow it down? ;-)
<Ulli>	crimso: no.
<Projects>	Ulli: hehe... no way :)
<Ulli>	not yet. we will open the - at the moment - internal SQL structure within
<Ulli>	the next weeks or so, so that you can drive external databases with
<Ulli>	papyrus as a frontend, but this is "future music".
<Ulli>	we do have a fair, here in Germany, middle of June, so lets see what we
<Ulli>	will have, till then. There will be a version 8.5, I guess.
<Abraxas>	:-)
<Ulli>	By the way, we have a ...
<Ulli>	aehm ...
<Ulli>	purchase time protection ...
<Ulli>	aehm ...
<Ulli>	means: Oeff ;-) if you buy now, we don't want any more money for the next
<Ulli>	quarter of a year, so if there is a new version within that time,
<Pilot>	It did it, I just imported a Word8 document in Papyrus, and a really huge one!
<Ulli>	its free.
<Pilot>	Took only 2 sec...
<crimso>	Pilot: Yahoo!
<Ulli>	we are in negotiation with a bible company, because we asked them if
<Ulli>	we are allowed to take a bible document out of the internet from their
<Ulli>	web page to show how fast papyrus is with a 5 MB document of 1100 pages
<warspite>	Ulli: What do we need to do in order to try/buy your latest release?
<Ulli>	(200 MHz loaded in 10 sec, this bible version).
<mandie>	wow
<crimso>	Ulli: Search and ye shall find...
<Ulli>	;-)
<Ulli>	warspite: Just go on our web page and take our SSL order form.
<Ulli>	some time later you will find three mails with the installation archives
<Ulli>	in your email account.
<Ulli>	:-)
<KC>	Hmmm .... I don't see how to bring up a spreadsheet.
<warspite>	Thank you, will do.
<Ulli>	;-) (kc)
<Ulli>	its too simple, maybe? :-)
<Ulli>	we hate the concept of having an own page for your spreadsheet tables.
<Ulli>	so we put all energy in the tables you can use in papyrus WORD docs, to
<Ulli>	make them easy to handle, WYSIWYG, and mighty in calculation, as well.
<Ulli>	so open a new papyrus WORD doc, and click on the blue table symbol in the
<Ulli>	upper right corner of the toolbar.
<Pilot>	The more options I try the more I like Papyrus...
<Ulli>	pilot: thats the way it should be :-)
<mandie>	can you post a url
<Ulli>	kc: then you can do calculations to whatever field or field group you want,
<mandie>	for papyrus
<Ulli>	just as in an external spreadsheet.
<Ulli>	mandie: yes?
<mandie>	what's the url for the papyrus site?
<Projects>	damn, I can open a small .doc file, but can't open the larger file it came from
<Ulli>	ah. sorry, didnt read this, first. www.rom-logicware.com.
<mandie>	thx
<Pilot>	Ulli: which dictionary file to load? .clx or .tlx?
<Ulli>	projects: maybe this other one is fast-saved?
<Ulli>	pilot: both.
<Projects>	"Unknown error #-9"?
<Ulli>	clx is the "thats the stock" stuff, the other one is ascii and is meant as being additional.
<Ulli>	papyrus can handle 32 dictionaries at once.
<Projects>	Ulli: no idea. I extracted a page out of it some time ago (forget how I did that), and the single page loads fine. The whole document gives me that "unknown error" message though
<Ulli>	projects: #9 sounds like a MS Word doc being saved with the fast save option.
<Projects>	Ulli: any workaround?
<Ulli>	not clever to do so, from time to time even MS Word itself looses the ability to
<Ulli>	load such a DOC ...
<Ulli>	projects: workaround? Yes. give me the file (data protection garantueed, of course,
<Ulli>	and we will have a look.
<Ulli>	maybe tomorrow or in two days there will be a 8.18 with a little improvement -
<Ulli>	maybe it can load your doc, then. :-)
<mandie>	Ulli: any chance that you will make Warpstock this year?
<Ulli>	mandie: a big one, yes.
<Abraxas>	Ulli .. why don't you think about a good 8 hours of sleep, first :-)))
<mandie>	GREAT! :)
<Ulli>	I got it a little bit late that Warptech is a big holiday weekend in USA, so I have
<Ulli>	some trouble to catch a flight, but if I can, I even will be there, also.
<Projects>	Ulli: Ok, I managed to load it in StarOffice (after quite a bit of waiting I might add).
<mandie>	true OS/2 supporter!
<Ulli>	and Warpstock is a little bit easier to catch a flight.
<KC>	OK, I am playing with the table. Do you have to bring up a calculation field each time you want to enter an expression?
<Pilot>	Really, Ulli, I am sure it will take at least a week for all of us to learn how to use half of papyrus features so you can have a vacations until then :-)
<Ulli>	mandie: yep. :-)
<Ulli>	pilot, abraxas: who needs sleep? ;-)
<Abraxas>	[ ] * Abraxas does :-)
<Ulli>	this week the other main developer christian nieber is on to have sleep, next week
<Ulli>	i am. X-)
*	Pilot tosses another cigarette...
<crimso>	Ulli: oops, maybe you should think of a shorter rotation span
<Ulli>	projects: may be. star office has good abilities to load nearly every MS Word doc.
<Ulli>	but I think we get better with the quality, all over.
<Pilot>	Ulli: not Russian :(
<Ulli>	pilot: you like russian cigarettes? Really? ;-)
<Pilot>	Ulli: btw, just to complicate things, localized versions of MS Office have slightly changed .doc format
<Ulli>	crimso: its already tuesday, here ;-)
<Projects>	Ulli: I like Papyrus much more than star office already, even if it can't open that document :-) I *HATE[ ] * the Star Office interface.
<Pilot>	Ulli: French :))
<Pilot>	Ulli: Gitanes
<Ulli>	pilot: no problem. as i already said, papyrus is unicode enabled, internally, and it
<Ulli>	will be externally also, soon.
<mandie>	bad link
<mandie>	The requested URL /files/papd7os2.exe was not found on this server.
<mandie>	http://www.rom-logicware.com/files/papd7os2.exe
<Projects>	mandie: that's 'cause you were late! :)
<mandie>	:P :)
<Projects>	hehehe
<Ulli>	pilot: Hmmmm, i love gitanes, but i quit smoking three quarters of a year ago ...
<KC>	Ulli, the equation editor just came up in German ...
<Ulli>	mandie: youre on the GERMAN page ...
<Abraxas>	mandie .. try: http://www.rom-logicware.com/e_demos.htm
<Swanee>	mandie: It worked for the rest of us that showed up on time
<Pilot>	Ulli: so both Lotus SS and StarOffice failed to load majority of these docs at all, no matter if the text is actually in English
<mandie>	Swanee: you don't even want to go there :)
<Ulli>	on the first page, directly below the button row, i made a link to the demo page, the ENGLISH demo page ... ;-)
<Swanee>	hehe
<Projects>	Ulli: did that file go through to you?
<Pilot>	Ulli: I knew you are a strong man :-)
<mandie>	I'm d/l papodemo.exe but I wasn't sure that was the os2 version
<Ulli>	projects: aehm, i have to type like hell, at the moment, dont know ... X-)
<Pilot>	Ulli: btw, how much an additional papyrus Windows license will cost me?
<Projects>	Ulli: did you accept the dcc? :-) I can't tell with this client
<Ulli>	mandie: there only is an os2 version, at the moment. rest is for later ;-)
<mandie>	DUH! it says it is right on the page...I'll be quiet now :)
<Sector>	/ignore mandie
<Ulli>	projects: no, my irc client didn't. I'm new on that, so please forgive me X-).
<mandie>	LOL
<Ulli>	Its even better to put it in an email, because then i can give it directly to the
<Ulli>	right developer to handle that.
<Ulli>	sometimes this is christian, sometimes its me, sometimes others.
<Projects>	Ulli: ok, what's your email address, and I'll zip it up and send it.
<Ulli>	ulli@rom-logicware.com.
<warspite>	Ulli: Can I have an UK English doc. checked with a French Spellchecker c/w acutes, circumflexes etc?
<mandie>	WSeBHoss: g'evening
<Ulli>	kc, still waiting for more features?
<Swanee>	WSeBHoss!!!
<WSeBHoss>	hello everyone.
<crimso>	WSeBHoss: Did you update your machine? ;-)
<Ulli>	warspite: aehm, whats the sense in checking an English doc with French rules? I think
<Ulli>	I didn't got the question ...
<Ulli>	but you can do spellcheck rules in any language you have to every text you have.
<warspite>	My son is learning French...we have an English/Aust codepage.......
*	Pilot is trying in vain to reach the limit of zoom factor in Papyrus :-)
<Ulli>	By the way, we invented that background spell checking in 1993, where M$ is so proud of ... ;-)
<KC>	Ulli, I am still playing with the spreadsheet stuff. Is there a way
<KC>	to import data
<warspite>	He writes his document , then has it checked with (if neccessary) the symbols added.
<Ulli>	Pilot: around 5000% percent lots of graphic card drivers say "no" to that ... X-)
<Ulli>	kc: no. But VERY soon, within the next weeks, till that fair in June. One of our
<Projects>	Ulli: MS invented everything... but we understand :-)
<Ulli>	weakest points, i know.
<Ulli>	projects: the funny thing is that i got a strong excuse from the M$ developers who
<Pilot>	Ulli: my G-200 is stopping at 4688% :-)
<Swanee>	Projects: Except the internet... that was Gore's baby! :-)
<Ulli>	had stolen the idea
<Ulli>	on a CeBIT fair in Hannover. They stood in front of our booth with very long faces
<Ulli>	;-)
<Projects>	hehehe
<Swanee>	Ulli: What did they say? "The devil made me do it?"
<Projects>	Swanee: c'mon, billy claims the internet is his :p
<KC>	Well, you have to have room to grow. Overall, I am quite pleased so far. It is great to have this addition to os/2.
<Ulli>	swanee: no, they told us that they just showed this in a developer conference, and
<Ulli>	one year later ms word came with it as a "brand new" idea ... ;-)
<Ulli>	kc: thanks :-)
<madodel>	I hear that someday bill gates will have the wonderful inovation of voice integrated into the operating system
<mandie>	what a unique idea!
<Ulli>	kc: another upgrade feature for version 8 was a database table global search and replace.
<Ulli>	madodel: and then he will tell that ms word is the first word processor which integrated this abilities ... ,-)
<crimso>	madodel: yes, and it will tell you "Malfunction!" all the time.
<Projects>	madodel: hrm... he can have one of my copies of Warp 4 and try it out before he innovates :p
<mandie>	great! a talking BSOD
<Projects>	hahahahahaha
<Ulli>	kc: sticky notes for fast notices on your text, also a good way to communicate with
<crimso>	Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!
<Projects>	"You're screwed!"
<Ulli>	somebody else about the text document.
<Swanee>	madodel: I saw that too. I am just waiting for the cooa crowd to say how wonderful it is considering how they downplayed it when OS/2 got it in '96.
<Projects>	hahaha
<KC>	Ulli: I just imported a fairly large MS Word document. Gee, not bad. It even recognized a table accurately.
<Ulli>	you'll find the sticky notes as the most down below part of that graphic object dialog, found with the button in
<Ulli>	the upper right corner of the toolbar.
<Ulli>	yes, kc, papyrus handles tables with care. :-) we LOVE tables. :-)
<Pilot>	KC: yes, it works fine here too, better than LSS and StarOffice... and much much faster
<warspite>	Ulli: Am downloading demo now. Thanks..... Can I paste a database table straight into a WP document?
<Ulli>	warspite: aehm ... in which format? no, i'm afraid ...
<Ulli>	we do have a totally different concept of database export.
<KC>	Ulli: I clicked on the sticky note, now what?
<Ulli>	it's based on WYSIWYG report templates, which are somewhat normal papyrus documents,
<Ulli>	with variable PROGRAMMABLE place holders for the data fields.
<Projects>	KC: me too... now what? :-)
<warspite>	In .DBF format. i.e. after making a table in DeScribe, I can paste a DBExpert table/query
<warspite>	Would I do the same here?
<KC>	Sticky notes - oh, I see, you draw a box.
<Ulli>	Ah. Yes, should be possible. I switch my "no" to a "yes, possible".
<Projects>	KC: ah, thanks :)
<warspite>	Thanks
<KC>	Hmmm ... I am starting to like this Papyrus thing.
<Ulli>	kc, everytime it gets quiet i go on with telling the new features of version 8, ok?
<KC>	Ulli: good plan.
<Ulli>	kc: careful - you may get addicted :-)
*	Pilot already does :)
<Pilot>	Ulli: btw, how much an additional papyrus Windows license will cost me?
<Ulli>	Brand new - to be honest, it was the best way to handle different languages - is that
<madodel>	How do I move the floating tool bar from the middle of the screen?
<Ulli>	we do the help in papyrus-own format.
<Ulli>	pilot: the half.
<Ulli>	if bought within two weeks or so together with the first version, little bit less.
<Projects>	madodel: I used Alt-F7 :)
<Pilot>	Ulli: but probably i won't need Windows any more now...
<madodel>	Projects That worked :-)
<Pilot>	Ulli: :)
<Ulli>	pilot: yes, if we can make somebody stay away from Windows and MS Word, then we're lucky :-)
*	Projects wonders what the cost of Papyrus will be (or already is?)
<Ulli>	projects: it already is. :-)
<Projects>	:)
<Ulli>	$99,- for Papyrus WORD (word processor, DTP, integrated spreadsheet)
<KC>	Ulli: the insert [ ] math formula (EqEd) dialog is in German instead of english, or is it just me?
<Projects>	anybody wanna buy my far_too_expensive copy of StarOffice? :-)
<Ulli>	Yes. Chris walked away, tonight, and he had the older English version of that we
<Ulli>	got for making the German translation. X-)
<Ulli>	So I just wanted to have it complete, but one of the very next versions will have
<Ulli>	our EqEd licence in real English - sorry for that, my fauld.
<Ulli>	aeh, fault.
<KC>	Ulli: not a big deal, just wanted to make sure you caught it.
<Ulli>	projects: and Papyrus OFFICE, which is an integration of our relational database Papyrus BASE
<Ulli>	together with Papyrus WORD, costs $ 149,-. Of course students get it for $25,- less.
<Projects>	this thing actually makes me want to use a word processor (something which I never use normally)
<Pilot>	KC: where did you find insert formula command?
<Ulli>	kc, did you got what I told about the HyperOFFICE abilities? Whe are just proud of that X-)
<Pilot>	KC: Ok, i see...
<Pilot>	Ulli: you should give us some more time, i told you :-)
<KC>	Ulli: no I missed the hyperoffice stuff. Do you want to say it again?
*	*[ ] * Signoff Ulli (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<Ulli2>	back again, got lost ... ;-)
*	*[ ] * MODE change [+o Ulli2] by Sector
<Sector>	At least you found your way back
<Ulli2>	somehow ... ;-)
<madodel>	Once it is edited, a log will be posted on the VOICE site.
<Ulli2>	at miminum my "clone" ... (Ulli TWO ... ,-))
<Projects>	should be "Ulli/2" :)
<Ulli2>
<Ulli2>	how long normally such sessions long?
<Ulli2>	aeh, last?
<Sector>	No time limit
<Ulli2>	does not mean that i want to go, its fun ... :-)
<madodel>	It is late where you are at. We should wrap things up soon
<Ulli2>	only being curious ... ;-)
<Ulli2>	normal work time.
<warspite>	Ulli: What time is it where you arre?
<Swanee>	Ulli2: Here is what you missed... Ulli: no I missed the hyperoffice stuff. Do you want to say it again?
<crimso>	madodel: late? you mean early!
<Sector>	Not late, early
<Ulli2>	I only feel bad about a work day when it goes longer than 5 a.m. ... X-)
<Sector>	**[ ] * TIME (Ulli2): Tue May 16 03:18:16 2000
<Ulli2>	crimso: late. medium. ;-)
<Ulli2>	warspite: 3:18 ...
*	Swanee say 3am is the best time to get any "real" work done :-)
<Ulli2>	swanee: yes, hyperoffice.
<Swanee>	hehe, I get it :-)
<Ulli2>	just like normal text hyperlinking, you can tell a text passage to be hyperlinked
<Ulli2>	to a dataset of your database, just the way you do a relational database link between
<warspite>	Ulli: It's 0920 here in Western Australia. I admire your stamina.
<Ulli2>	two datasets.
<KC>	Ulli: Wow, I just figured out this hyperoffice link. Outstanding!!!!!
<Ulli2>	warspite: 0920 is shocking early. ;-)
<Ulli2>	kc: its simply unique O:-).
<Ulli2>	kc: honestly, i don't know any other program to do so.
<warspite>	Got the kids off to school...house is quiet
<KC>	Very, very nice...
<Ulli2>	best thing to use is literature cites, specially for scientific texts.
<Ulli2>	just care for your citations when you WRITE them.
<KC>	I am a little blown away here...
<Ulli2>	cite your professor, or a collegue, and link this cite to the "science paper" dataset in your database.
<Pilot>	Ulli2: what's the difference between HyperOFFICE link and hypertext link?
<Ulli2>	when your work is ready, you're just two mouse clicks away from your literature chapter, formatted as YOU want it.
<Pilot>	Ulli2: the Office link can use database and the other one not?
<Ulli2>	pilot: hyperlink is normal stuff, as in html.
<Ulli2>	HyperOFFICE does the same, equally simple, but is linked to a dataset - or, next level,
<Ulli2>	to a search question, which is done freshly everytime you do (click) the HyperOFFICE
<Ulli2>	link in your text.
<KC>	Ulli: I don't think I have seen anything like this before. Maybe I don't get out enough.
<Projects>	hehehe
<mandie>	I don't want to reboot and miss anything :)
<Projects>	mandie: so don't... it works without rebooting
<Ulli2>	So if you want your secretary to do the right phonecalls in the morning, just write down a Papyrus WORD letter with the correct links to the datasets to be phonecalled.
<mandie>	guess you can't believe everything you read :)
<Ulli2>	the stupiest secretary can handle that ;-)
<DSOMber1>	Hello all.
*	Projects begs to differ... I had a secretary once that could screw up taking out the garbage :p
<Ulli2>	Or when you want to make a CD expert book, you can write your text, and as further
<mandie>	didn't work here
<KC>	Let's be kind to the secretaries :-)
<Ulli2>	explanations you can HyperOFFICE-link to explaining datasets.
<Ulli2>	for example it could make lots of sense to write a book about good Malt Whisky, as a
<Ulli2>	Scottland tour, and in your travel story you can join to datasets about destilleries and/or whiskys! ;-)
<Ulli2>	very important solution, isn't it? ;-)
<Projects>	Swanee and Abraxas would have to taste it first... not just read about it :-)
<crimso>	Ulli: Cheers!
<Ulli2>	kc: of course, i only mean that few one common to MS Word ... ;-)
<KC>	Ulli: Ok, so if you want to send your document to someone, you send the database file too right?
<Ulli2>	projects: we can handle all kind of files in Papyrus BASE, instead of liquids and smells ... ;-)
<Projects>	:)
<mandie>	brb...reboot
<Ulli2>	kc: yes. to the fair in June I already mentioned, there will be a "Papyrus VIEW".
<Sector>	And she said she didn't want to reboot...
<Ulli2>	this is a freeware version of Papyrus, being able of handling all Papyrus WORD (so also MS Word, ASCII, RTF, ...) and
<Ulli2>	Papyrus BASE (also dBase and so on) documents. Together WITH HyperOFFICE abilities.
<Ulli2>	Means, if you want to make an expert theme CD, feel free to use Papyrus VIEW for that.
<Ulli2>	For editing, of course, you need a normal Papyrus ;-).
<KC>	Ulli: I see where you are going ... wonderful idea.
<Ulli2>	For bigger, commercial projects, we want to have a little obulus, at minimum a version of whatever
<crimso>	Ulli: Good idea. I think that will help spreading the program.
<Ulli2>	is made with it to be able to show around ;-)
<Ulli2>	crimso: thats the idea.
<Ulli2>	and it can spread the CONCEPT, also, what we would like.
<Ulli2>	we came to the idea when i heard a talk about a solution made by the Max Planck institute
<Ulli2>	(quite famous adress, here in Europe), about a software catalogue they made for a
<Ulli2>	screw company. 250,000.- DM, 125,000.- $.
<Ulli2>	And Papyrus in its actual state can do the important 98% of this abilities.
<Ulli2>	I told the owner of the company, standing around there when the MPI guys had there
<Ulli2>	talk at a software conference. He lost lots of blood in his face. good for a role
<Ulli2>	in the next dracula movie. ;-)
<Ulli2>	ah, yes, kc ;-), we improved the relational database abilities of Papyrus BASE so far
<Ulli2>	that you can use it as a more than simple ...
<Ulli2>	uuh ... Warenwirtschaftssystem ... ;-)
<Ulli2>	aeh ...
<Ulli2>	something you can write invoices with, based on an adress stock and an article stock.
<Ulli2>	ahm.
<Ulli2>	;-)
<Ulli2>	Whats the name for such kind of programs`?
<Ulli2>	What I want to say is that the example database of Papyrus BASE is a simple, but easily
<Pilot>	Ulli2: that means you can do with Papyrus View what Adobe only tries to imitate with the latest PDF versions
<Ulli2>	expandable dealer/trading system.
<Ulli2>	pilot: yes.
<Ulli2>	;-)
<KC>	Well, you knocked about 3 zeros of the price tag. I guess that would make the blood drain out of his face ;)
<Pilot>	Ulli2: btw, what compiler do you use for OS/2 version?
<Ulli2>	kc: yes ... ;-) Poor boy ... He thought he got it cheap, because it was an institute and not a software company ...
<Pilot>	Ulli2: to build papyrus
<Ulli2>	ibm visual c, NOT version 4 ;-)
<Pilot>	Ulli2: i see :)
<crimso>	Ulli: thank god!
<Ulli2>	we do it in simple "C" without any "++" - that makes the speed and the little code.
<Ulli2>	we will carefully try to test C++ routines, if they wouldn't link huge libraries
<Ulli2>	for two lines of code X-)
<KC>	Ulli: but if you added about 50 more megabytes to the product, you could charge more :)
<Projects>	hahaha
<Swanee>	KC: LOL!
<Ulli2>	kc: ;-) yes ... first we loved to come out with two floppy discs, but later on we learned
<Ulli2>	that people may run away when seing this (CAN'T be good ... ;-)).
*	Swanee thinks KC must be a marketing guy in training :-)
<KC>	Ulli: you could even call it an operating system!
<Ulli2>	What? kc?
*	Projects always installs Opera browser on people's win machines when they ask him to "fix" things... can carry it on one floppy :p
<Ulli2>	I think Star Office IS an operating system. Thats not the way we want to go.
<Ulli2>	Papyrus is able to run as a single exe file with only a few lacks.
<KC>	No, Star Office takes OVER my operating system. I can't do anything after it is loaded.
<Projects>	Star Office is bloated so that windows users will buy it
<Ulli2>	till half a year ago, it was possible to start this papyrus.exe from a floppy disc.
<Projects>	oh, wait... it's free now isn't it :(
<Ulli2>	kc: yes, so SO is a Meta-operating system ... ;-)
<Ulli2>	projects: depends on what "free" means ...
<Sector>	wb mandieÐÐ
<crimso>	Ulli: yes, you pay with lots of RAM...
<mandie>	ok, what am i doing wrong...go shows PAPYRUSD.EXE is running but I have no program ?????
<Ulli2>	free to decide to join or leave operating systems? ;-)
<Projects>	Ulli2: free if you want to sit there for 6 hours and download it...
<mandie>	and it's not in the Windows List
<Ulli2>	mandie: what did you do last?
<mandie>	rebooted
<KC>	Can you imagine SO being delivered by email?
<Ulli2>	kc: ;-)
<Projects>	KC: no thanks :)
<Ulli2>	mandie: and then - (by the way, you dont have to) you started? the icon?
<mandie>	I started the Demo icon...
<Ulli2>	and it did nothing?
<mandie>	nothing
<Ulli2>	hm ...
<mandie>	so I ran go from cmd line and it shows the process
<Projects>	mandie: another desktop perhaps (you are running PC/2 aren't you?)
<mandie>	projects: I'm running pc/2 but not with virtual desktops
<Ulli2>	did you try to directly start the papyrus.exe out of its folder window also?
<mandie>	pc/2 just popped up with an error msg though :)
<mandie>	let me disable pc/2 and reboot and see what happens
<Ulli2>	try the papyrus.exe directly, first, please.
<Projects>	mandie: might be pc/2... but its working fine here (and I use the virtual desktops)
<Ulli2>	interesting to me. :-)
<mandie>	ok
<KC>	Ulli and Gang: I am signing off to let you work out technical details. Nice job Ulli! Keith
<Ulli2>	any californian guy here? I slurp a good californian red wine, between the lines ...
<mandie>	maybe that's my problem...I don't have a papyrus.exe
<Ulli2>	good stuff, that ... ;-)
<thepab>	well thank you
<mandie>	just papyrusd.exe
<Ulli2>	thanks, keith :-)
<mandie>	and that's running
<Ulli2>	mandie: sorry, thats what i meant
<Ulli2>	papyrusd.exe is the demo
*	Sector is in California
<mandie>	nope, no go with that
<mandie>	let me kill the process and try again
*	Projects isn't in california, but have family there
<Ulli2>	sector, Gallo wine OK? :-)
<mandie>	nope, can't kill it :(
<warspite>	Try Margaret River...Good wine, so I'm told.
<Sector>	kill -9 mandie
<mandie>	sector: doesn't work with go
<Sector>	Nope sure didn't, the mandie process is still here...
<Sector>	Hi Blackbird
<mandie>	hehe
<Blackbird>	Hi Sector
<mandie>	ok, I'll disable pc/2 and see what happens..brb
<Ulli2>	hm - sorry, mandie ... would love to know what happened exactly, so maybe we can
<Ulli2>	do something against it ...
<Ulli2>	ah. too late for mandie. X-)
<Projects>	cool... just exported my quote form from ibm works to word 6 format, and imported it into papyrus... everything came over except for a line...
<Pilot>	btw, there's lot of useful info in Papyrus FAQ... what happened to mandie?
<Projects>	and it took half a second to draw a new line once I found the tool :)
<Ulli2>	so, guys (and ladies, if there are some there), of course not at the moment, because
<Sector>	mandie went to reboot
<Ulli2>	you all have to learn more about papyrus, first, but later on we would love
<Ulli2>	to know what you all think how to improve Papyrus.
<Pilot>	Ulli2: where can we send bugreports/suggestions? :-)
*	Projects already sent one :)
<Ulli2>	This is half of our "income" - we love to talk to people; even on fairs.
<Ulli2>	we do have some more frustrated employees, who hate that Chris and me are going to
<Ulli2>	all the fairs, ;-), but we love it.
<Ulli2>	so your comments are welcome at WarpTech (I hope), at Warpstock, US and Europe,
<Ulli2>	and, Pilot, at VOICE sessions (thanks again, abraxas and you all :-) - big fun, here)
<Ulli2>	and simply, and one of my most intensive works, by sending an email to
<Ulli2>	Ulli@rom-logicware.com, if you want to talk to me, or to support@rom-logicware.com,
<Ulli2>	if you are afraid that I might be away, travelling around the world, to Phoenix,
*	Projects hopes Ulli will come for another speakup sometime soon...
<Ulli2>	for example ;-)
<Pilot>	Ulli2: congratulations on a great product!
<Ulli2>	Why not. If VOICE can "stand" me another time ;-), I would be glad to do so. :-)
<Projects>	heh... we can "stand" it :)
<warspite>	I haven't tried it yet, but congrats from here as well!
<Pilot>	Ulli2: but be prepared to get lots of e-mails - the better the product the more customers whant from it :-)
<Ulli2>	pilot: we DO want that! :-)
*	Projects wants nothing more... papyrus already has way more than I need
<Ulli2>	warspite: Thanks! I told you all a lot about Papyrus, so you already now it. :-)
<Ulli2>	the rest is easy. :-)
<warspite>	You bet.
<Ulli2>	projects: yes.
<Projects>	and there's a built-in tutorial
<Blackbird>	Sorry to enter so late....I just have a quick one....does it do html?
<Ulli2>	blackbird: yes. html 3.2
<Projects>	Blackbird: and homl :)
<Ulli2>	with a lot html 4, but 3.2 is what we grant.
<Ulli2>	aehm?
*	Projects whispers to Ulli... "hyperoffice" markup language :)
<Ulli2>	so for example we miss frames, which we dont find that important.
<Blackbird>	me either
<Projects>	frames are evil anyway
<Ulli2>	first, its easy to make them outside papyrus, and second, the arent that user-friendly
<Ulli2>	from the viewpoint of "stolen" browser space.
<Ulli2>	good excuse, isnt it? x-)
<Blackbird>	totally agree here
<warspite>	Frames are the bane of WebEx
<Ulli2>	no, its not worth the work, frames - if sbd. needs them, are done quite easy in an ascii editor.
<Ulli2>	little bit more sad i am that we dont have form elements, so they also cant be done
<Ulli2>	by papyrus.
<Blackbird>	I like that one....sbd.....have to remember it....
<Ulli2>	so far the weak points - but i guess you never have built up table pages that far
<Ulli2>	as in papyrus.
<crimso>	I like nested tables
<Ulli2>	pictures, with lots of anchor possibilities, for example anchored as a character, hush, hush, in a table field, ready.
<Ulli2>	cell fusion, columns, rows ...
<Ulli2>	crimso: tables in tables?
<Ulli2>	I never needed. I always get every table structure i want in less than two minutes
<Ulli2>	with papyrus.
<crimso>	yes, in HTML. That's great for a nice design without graphics.
<Ulli2>	by the way, if you try the demo, try the simplicity of picture using.
<Ulli2>	go into the picture catalogue, which holds all pictures of a document, zoom it separately
*	Projects has tried the simplicity of line objects :)
<Ulli2>	to the main document, grap pieces of a pic, just drag it into the text doc - or into another window.
<Ulli2>	rotate, resize, group, anchor as a character or on the beginning of a paragraph.
<Ulli2>	lots of fun.
<Ulli2>	and second, try the tutorial chapter about our discontinuous blocks.
<Ulli2>	mark text blocks with double clicks, hold down Control, and mark additional blocks.
<Ulli2>	And do with them whatever you want - drag them around, even between docs, change their style, ...
<Ulli2>	so where we love to put lots of energy in are the daily use features.
<Projects>	if you have a sticky note in your document, will it show up in the printed output?
<Ulli2>	These aren't the most impressive things in the first impression of Papyrus, but
<Ulli2>	later on you become addicted. ;-)
<Ulli2>	projects: no. Its a note, having nothing to do with the real doc.
<Projects>	cool... great idea :)
<Ulli2>	OK, birds are already singing, sun is rising, I already had my second glass of red wine, so we should
<Ulli2>	come to the last ten minutes or so, to the last questions, I feel :-)
<Ulli2>	(if there are any left ;-))
<Sector>	Ok, any last requests—
<Ulli2>	someone said "tutorial" a few paragraphs above.
<Blackbird>	the URL is>>>>again sorry for being so late
<thepab>	what do you do when it can't find any fonts....?
<Projects>	yeah, me :)
<Projects>	www.rom-logicware.com
<Blackbird>	thanks
<Ulli2>	because this is new, I would love constructive critics about that a lot.
*	Pilot has set away! (auto away after idling [15 min]) [Log:ON] .gz.
<Projects>	thepab: it can find them... you just have to scroll through the list
<thepab>	every time i hit one it says font family not found
<Ulli2>	do we have done good with the structure, or didn't you find some topics you searched for?
<thepab>	i got way too many and they all show on the list, but don't work
<Ulli2>	documentation is as important as a good program, we feel.
<Projects>	hmm... mine came up just fine once I discovered that they're actually in the list
<Ulli2>	thepab: what sort of fonts?
<Ulli2>	where do they come from?
<mandie>	hmmmm
<thepab>	font not found default used...
<Projects>	Ulli2: so far I've only glanced at the tutorial (trying the tricks and tips here and there)... so far so good
<thepab>	some standard, like helvetica
<Sector>	It's mandieÐÐÐ
<mandie>	Ulli: is there supposed to be a entry in the config.sys?
<mandie>	I've uninstalled and reinstalled and have pc/2 disabled
<mandie>	does it have a problem with xfolder?
<thepab>	arial
<Projects>	arial works for me
<Ulli2>	papyrus internally works with a very high resolution, maybe some fonts dont like that?
<Projects>	mandie: I have xfolder too... no problem
<thepab>	then screen starts to corrupt
<mandie>	hmm
<Ulli2>	I heard such behaviour about some SO font CD fonts ...
<Ulli2>	XFOLDER! mandie, thats it.
<thepab>	and every place you click the error message arrives
<Ulli2>	fonts are little programs.
<mandie>	ok, let me disable and try without xfolder...brb
<Ulli2>	so they can "crash" as well.
<Projects>	Ulli2: xfolder? I use xfolder, and papyrus works just fine
<Ulli2>	mandie: just a second.
<Projects>	too late again :)
<Ulli2>	thepab: often its only one font, that smashes. hard to find, I know, but its even
<Ulli2>	worth to wipe out such a font.
<Sector>	mandie is quick
<thepab>	hmmm.... got over 300 fonts
<Projects>	thepab: ever hear of FontFolder?
<thepab>	that is what i am using
<Ulli2>	papyrus makes intensive use of fonts - very high internal resolution - so you EVER have WYSIWYG,
<Projects>	hrm... same here
<Ulli2>	never a line break in the printout which wasnt on the screen, lots of other things.
<thepab>	yes, but how do I find the bad one.... it doesn't like any of them
<Ulli2>	mandie - there is, AFAIR, an explanation list for xfolder, isnt it?
<Ulli2>	put papyrus in, there, that solved an equally problem with a customer here in Germany.
<crimso>	Ulli2: you mean an exception list? No there is none.
<Projects>	Ulli2: mandie's not here, and I believe you mean "exemption list" :)
<Ulli2>	thepab - intervall using.
<thepab>	intervall?
<Ulli2>	projects: yes. getting tired. this early bird is singing directly under my window, here, saying "go to sleep" X-)
<warspite>	Ulli: My system is *fairly[ ] * vanilla. Will report if I have troubles.
<Ulli2>	and I think he's right. It's 4:23, already ... :-)
<thepab>	finally closed it as it got really funked up looking.
<Projects>	Ulli2: need a gun? :-)
<Ulli2>	thepab: de-install half of the fonts. If everything works fine, use all the others.
<thepab>	good thought... i play some more
<Ulli2>	projects: whatfor?
<Ulli2>	did i miss sth.?
<Projects>	Ulli2: to get rid of that annoying bird :)
<Ulli2>	thepab: then again half your installed fonts. with this method you rapidly will find the bad guys, ah, fonts.
<Ulli2>	ah, its a ... Nachtigall ... aeh ... that one singing for Romeo and Juliet, also ...
<Ulli2>	what is it called in English?
*	Swanee thinks Projects would have a great time here, at night, with a six-pack, a gun and good headlights... :-)
<Projects>	nightingale
<thepab>	now you are using logic ulli, for shame
<Sector>	Hi persell
<Projects>	Swanee: don't do guns or sixpacks :)
<thepab>	well, i returned to the base font set and loaded ok.....
<persell>	How about packs of sixguns?
<Ulli2>	thepab: may be, I'm tired, but where? ;-)
<Projects>	hehehe
<thepab>	well... base+ (77 fonts)
<Projects>	that's about my base too
<Ulli2>	thepab: and that works fine?
<thepab>	yep... wheeeew
<Swanee>	Hi persell!!!
<Ulli2>	ok, try that intervall schachtelung (sorry, dont know the term), then ...
<thepab>	i shouldn't need that many fonts anyway, LOL
<Ulli2>	mathematical term I described above - does anybody know the word for it?
<thepab>	hmmm, 25 years since my last german classes
<persell>	Hi Wayne! Hows it going?
<Ulli2>	thepab: youre right, too many fonts are ugly ;-)
*	Swanee thinks Ulli2 uses english well enough to make us think it is almost his native tongue
<persell>	do the fonts take up a lot of resource?
<thepab>	they can
<thepab>	but hadn't done much to my machine yet
<thepab>	now if that could just fix Netscrape
<Ulli2>	OK, guys, lets talk some time later on this month or the next one again about birds and guns and maybe Papyrus, also ...
*	Projects never loaded them all at once, so no idea... only use the libraries that I need at the time
<thepab>	thanks ulli:)
<Ulli2>	What about qutting for today (tonight)? :-)
<persell>	I recall the days of Win 3.1 and too many fonts
<Projects>	Ulli2: :-) You'll be welcome anytime
<crimso>	Ulli2: Thanks for coming!
<Ulli2>	OK, so big thanks to you all, it was a pleasure to be welcomed that friendly. lots of fun! :-)
<Ulli2>	I hope you all will have same amounts of fun, as well, with Papyrus! :-)
<Sector>	Ulli2, thanks for stopping in for the chat. We might just have to schedule another one with you...
<Ulli2>	If you have any questions, ideas, if you just would love to talk to me - it's Ulli@rom-logicware.com. :-)
<Swanee>	Thank you Ulli2! We are happy that everything worked out so well with the speakup AND the release. Good luck!
<Ulli2>	sector: Yes, I would love to! :-)
<Ulli2>	swanee: thanks! :-) OK guys, have a nice time, I really heard my bed calling ...
<Ulli2>	"Uuuullliiiii ..." X-)
<Swanee>	Night Ulli2
<Blackbird>	sweet dreams
<Projects>	goodnight Ulli... or rather good morning :)
<warspite>	Thanks again Ulli. Will be in contact. Don't let the bed bugs bite!
<Sector>	So long Ulli2, don't get too much sleep you'll need to keep up the good work
<crimso>	now let the bird sing you to sleep
<Ulli2>	So - good night to you and thanks to you all for a nice discussion! :-) (Leaving :-))