General VOICE Meeting - 5 February 2005
There was no published agenda.
Summary - Decisions/Announcements Made
1. A VOICE 2005 Plan, Draft 1 pdf file was made available for download at http://os2.mensys.nl/rwklein/voice.pdf. A text copy can be found at the bottom of this transcript.
2. Discussion was held on a number of the points brought forward in this document.
3. Anyone wishing to state an opinion on any of the points made in this document or offer suggestions should do so in writing by E-mail to email@example.com.
4. Further discussion on the document and all replies will be held at the next meeting.
5. Next scheduled meeting is the 19th of February 2005.
Chairman of the meeting Roderick Klein called the meeting to order at 15:36:44 EST
<eCSNL> OK later then planned
<eCSNL> This meeting is now opened.
<eCSNL> John could you start logging.
<JWE> logging has started
<eCSNL> Thank you.
<eCSNL> Well I was elected as president of VOICE some time ago.
<eCSNL> And work has been putting a break an my VOICE renewal plans.
<eCSNL> I wish things would go faster. But last week an Athlon 64 beta CD was released, that did not happen just like that.
<eCSNL> Here you can find a first draft of the document.
<KenKrchnr> ?msg BobB Looking good
<eCSNL> Please download
<eCSNL> and read it...
<eCSNL> Its not long...
<eCSNL> This is also the way I want to discuss things in the future instead of putting the arguments on the table at meetings.
<eCSNL> Ah yes, what I mean with Islands
<eCSNL> Is the fact we are not hearing things from each other.
<WalterOS2> That is certainly true.
<WalterOS2> I keep bumping into valuable web sites that I didn't know existed!
<eCSNL> Just imagen how shitty that software developer feels about the software package he wrote and almost nobody gives feedback
<eCSNL> Simply because they did not hear about his website...
<eCSNL> Linuxdude this document is a draft...
<WarpedOS2> well... isn't it open for discussion?
<WarpedOS2> OS/2 users are dwindling and I just see it that if it becomes somewhat closed... you then close opportunity!
<eCSNL> Agree on that.
<eCSNL> I think that there are however still a lot of people out there that look for a Linux friendly type of OS
<eCSNL> and a lot of OS/2 users left.
<MADodel> Its always been a balancing act. Offer the community free services, but offer some kind of incentive to join.
<BobB> agree with that
<WarpedOS2> I don't disagree with membership at all
<KenKrchnr> The Norman offer seemed to go over quite well
<BobB> I just read the article and think a good idea would be to post the report on the voice site
<eCSNL> This article is set to expand
<MADodel> I agree that one of the problems VOICE has had is in communicating what it has done. It would be great to have an annual report.
<BobB> maybe even a monthly highlight report could be good, but I guess that could also included in the magazine
<BobB> well I need to go right now
<WarpedOS2> what about utilizing RSS of the mozilla browsers as a way too?
<BobB> the little women is yelling for help
<BobB> I will try and get in more often
<WalterOS2> WarpedOS2: RSS?
<eCSNL> I don't agree with this.
<eCSNL> It's up to the person holding the SpeakUp
<WarpedOS2> mozilla Live bookmarks
<eCSNL> if he wants questions asked during his story
<eCSNL> or after.
<WarpedOS2> Walter, you not used them RSS
<WarpedOS2> Walter, you not used them RSS
<WalterOS2> I use IWB mostly.
<WarpedOS2> too bad... :-)
<WarpedOS2> Firefox, mozilla utilizes them
<Hawklord> os2.cz uses RSS already
<WarpedOS2> good ... Hawklord, more sites should use them
<Hawklord> It works with the Yahoo! groups too
<WalterOS2> IMO Mozilla is not tested enough, so new releases come out too often.
<eCSNL> I will think
<eCSNL> about the problem that I created in the document and the mailing list.
<eCSNL> I think people wanted to rather use
<eCSNL> mailing list for discussion about VOICE>
<eCSNL> Last meeting the options varied on this.
<WalterOS2> I would.
<WalterOS2> rather use the mailing list.
<WalterOS2> More time efficient.
<WarpedOS2> as long as the E-mail doesn't get labeled as spam sometimes??
<Hawklord> I would prefer an NNTP interface
<WarpedOS2> Hey Hawklord, that sounds like a good suggestion
<Hawklord> Best would be a system that has NNTP, mail, web and RSS interfaces
* eCSNL wonders who is going to build such a system...
* MADodel does also
<eCSNL> NNTP mail and web and RSS interfaces
<eCSNL> And RSS is out of the game...
<eCSNL> Only useful for
<WarpedOS2> that does not take much horsepower
<WalterOS2> Hawklord will of course.
<eCSNL> one way traffic and small messages in my opinion
<WarpedOS2> unless we are using M$ servers
<eCSNL> What do you mean WarpedOS2 ?
<Hawklord> I think there are such systems already, with at least a subset of the interfaces
<WarpedOS2> using NNTP Mail and Web and RSS for Voice will not require a lot of Horsepower, Voice most like could host it all now anyway
<Gord> Is there BLOG software for OS/2?
<WarpedOS2> sounds like some good options are being suggested
<eCSNL> Yes there is Blog software.
<eCSNL> Where blog software does not really exits.
<MADodel> Doesn't CommuniGate offer a web interface as well as mail?
<eCSNL> It usually written in PHP or Perl.
<eCSNL> Or one of the other languages.
<Gord> We need a piece of software that presents a 'whiteboard' to which all have access and can add comments and questions.
<WarpedOS2> Lots of PHP stuff on SourceForge with that
<eCSNL> Now with all of these projects just one question how do we keep control who gets access yes or no ?
<Gord> So it looks like an IRC session but added to at different times.
<eCSNL> Very fun mail nttp and web....
<eCSNL> Until ..... discovers it for instance, of spammers.
<eCSNL> A better solution might a mailing list.
<WarpedOS2> doesn't NNTP have password options?
<eCSNL> yes but not via a database...
<eCSNL> Normally they have there own
<eCSNL> small access file...
<WarpedOS2> must be able to import with a ASCII, or csv file
<eCSNL> The question is how many interfaces do you want to have to this discussion system ?
<eCSNL> All maintenance and things that can go broken.
<eCSNL> OK I want to close down this discussion. Read the PDF file.
<eCSNL> Passwords getting out of sync for instance.
<WarpedOS2> I think the PDF file has sparked this discussion... hasn't it?
<eCSNL> Yes my intension was that you put your proposal in a small document and next meeting we see what comes in.
<eCSNL> I will put that in the PDF then we can discuss that.
<WarpedOS2> awww IC
<WarpedOS2> ...k...well I gotta run... good discussion... TTL
<eCSNL> Is there anybody that disagrees with this ?
<Zoltan> What you referring to?
<Zoltan> The PDF?
<Hawklord> I have done some research about discussion systems lately for another association, but I don't have enough information yet
<eCSNL> The idea if VOICE should dump its business IRC meetings and if it should be replaced
<eCSNL> with what kind of system.
<KenKrchnr> I agree with whoever said there should still be one IRC meeting/month
<Hawklord> At least meeting times attract people to this channel
<eCSNL> Well I put my opinion in the document.
<eCSNL> Everybody his opinion is welcome and we will vote on it when all opinions are in.
<ACP1> Pardon my ignorance but, where should opinions be sent?
* eCSNL points to the PDF...
<eCSNL> page 6
<ACP1> Aha! Thanks.
<KenKrchnr> Now, about that "closing down the news" pages :-)
<KenKrchnr> Mark presently gets news from many different sources. Are we saying he'd just be sending them to a central database rather than the voicenews maillist?
<Hawklord> The PDF talks about a system for news distribution. This could also be used for VOICE discussions, closed or open.
<Zoltan> I like and appreciate what Mark is doing for us...
<WalterOS2> Me too!
<ACP1> The PDF talks about other news facilities closing down their submission systems, not their delivery mechanisms.
<Gord> Wouldn't that cut off some input?
<eCSNL> No not if all mayor sites join the system...
<eCSNL> No you miss more news then that you catch.
<ACP1> Other news facilities might forward submitted news.
<KenKrchnr> Mark, any comments?
<eCSNL> ACP1 no we want to have one central system
<eCSNL> no forward systems.
<eCSNL> Because when you read the PDF the news system of os2news.com is also suitable to get news processed from different languages.....
<eCSNL> I will clarify.
<eCSNL> For example
<eCSNL> www.os2world.com and www.os2.org would drop there news submission system.
<eCSNL> Now when you would click on the submission link news goes go in into the central news system database.
<eCSNL> There will be no filtering on the incoming side.
<eCSNL> Its up to webmasters to then select the news.
<eCSNL> Within the next 4 months or so I hope we can hook up about 40 OS/2 websites to this system (including Russian, Italian etc.).
<eCSNL> The news streams can also be translated by volunteers.
<ACP1> Hopefully news isn't submitted to both, in this example, www.os2world.com and www.os2.org,
<Hawklord> eCSNL: Who created the system?
<eCSNL> Well that is a minor detail...
<eCSNL> If somebody goes past the both websites within an hour
<eCSNL> people who select the news can see this.
<eCSNL> Robert Henschel coded this...
<Hawklord> I see now: "This Plone site was built using the Plone Content Management System"
<eCSNL> I will look forward to people sending me suggestions on what we should do
<eCSNL> with the IRC voice meetings
<wdl> 'Bye all. Gotta stop now.
<eCSNL> I was hoping for more response on the document.
<eCSNL> I guess I need to expand it ?
<eCSNL> Any further comments
<eCSNL> or other points people would like to discuss
<Zoltan> I think you are heading in the right direction.
<Gord> It is a bold plan.
<eCSNL> Anybody in favour to close this meeting ?
<eCSNL> say aye
<WalterOS2> Move to adjourn
<eCSNL> Nobody against closing this meeting ?
* eCSNL always feels this question is not useful to ask :-)
<Gord> It is useful to ask if 'yes' votes are short.
<Gord> My Aye was for closing.
* eCSNL hits the hammer on the table and declares this meeting closed
Meeting adjourned 5 February 2005 at 17:04:10 EST
OS/2 VOICE 2005 plan
It should be stated the author of this document is a bit dyslexia.
And also English is not his native language. This is also a draft document.
While typing this document I did not yet know which way to go since this is the first time as far as I know that VOICE has published a document outlining its strategy. With "which way to go" I mean I did not know to write this document for the VOICE members or the volunteers doing the work.
I ended up writing this for both, the VOICE members (and none VOICE members) and the volunteers that make VOICE work.
Its time for the OS/2/eComStation community to wake up and understand we are working on islands. As I work at Mensys I noticed how with some coordination the Multimedia renewal in eComStation became possible.
My *personal* vision is that VOICE should grow to an organization that is better structured. But also VOICE should work much better together with the community and basically replace the TeamOS/2 structure that in my personal opinion (sadly) not a lot is left of.
The first VOICE should do is get in touch with local users groups and get there website and/or E-mail addresses and collect this on the VOICE website. Then people interested know where OS/2 can be found in there country.
VOICE is not here for the volunteers that run, we do it because we like OS/2 and want to you to be able to use OS/2. We want to make this clear to other people and help people if they are stuck.
President OS/2 VOICE
The most import thing for a community is to know what is going is. You need an effective news system to distribute news. The OS/2 community has a lot of websites that list news, the most important one's are (if I have not forgotten any):
Have indicated they are willing to join the news sytem:
Will be asked after the above websites are running.
The news system was an idea of Roderick Klein and Robert Henschel.
Here its basically being used:
Its news from the os2voice E-mail list in German mostly.
The service behind this system is http://www.os2news.com (You don't see any pages, you are redirected at this moment). The first websites to join before the end of March (we hope) are os2voice.org, os2world.com and os2.org.
What the idea behind this news system is, is that all websites will close down there own news submission system and use the system of os2news.com. VOICE is the first one use this system. When a user submits news it goes into the central database. All websites can get the news from this system. It also is enabled for news to be translated into other languages. Each news item gets unique number. The news can not be fetched by end users. This is done of purpose so that the other websites
Its basically a kind of Reuters press agency for the OS/2 community. But it can only accessed by websites hooked into this system. It means news from the Japanese OS/2 community can be translated and distributed. The same thing for Russia.
When I (Roderick Klein) organized the first speak for VOICE since quite some time a posting to www.ecomstation.org that brought most people to the SpeakUp targeted at Australia and the rest of Asia! Otherwise there would have been no visitors. It proves the requirement of such a system.
What should VOICE do to attract more members?
VOICE is not clear enough what it does, how it does it and why should become a member.
VOICE should publish a yearly report in which is states what is has done in a year and what it plans to do the next year. I first suggested we would publish a financial statement, but this could better be part of one report. It could contain for example:
* How many members we have.
* Running expenses. We for example shipped a webserver via DHL from the US to Canada, domain names.
* What we did, for example sponsor Warpstock US
Why become member?
Looking at the statics of the webserver about 1000 people read the online magazine of VOICE each month. Also people download it from VOICE and http://hobbes.nmsu.edu. Of this we have no figures how many people download
To attract members:
* Put on the website with a few bullet points what we do.
Benefits for members:
* Software lottery
This was discussed. Who can volunteer to contact software vendors. I (Roderick Klein) indicated I would do that but I'm to busy. In my plan there should be a lottery every 2 months. You join automatically. And when you win you automatically don't join for 1 round. Sponsors get there banner on every page of the newsletter of that month.
* Software with discount (Norman for example)
* Vote on VOICE issues
* Download the newsletter in PDF format
Could we also introduce a 2 year membership ?
VOICE IRC SpeakUps
In 2004 there where 2 VOICE IRC meetings. It both was with Jan van Wijk about Dfsee. But the difference was the first IRC speakup was targeted at Europe and America. The second SpeakUp was targeted at Australia and Asia. Its a great way to ask questions to the guest speaker.
Here the 2005 SpeakUp list will come.
A new thing we should do is introduce a helpdesk timeslot twice a month. One targeted at Australia and Asia and the other one at America and Europe.
The VOICE IRC meetings
What to replace it with?
Roderick Klein is his opinion:
In my personal view as president of VOICE the VOICE IRC meetings of VOICE are an inflexible method of controlling VOICE. Every first and third Saturday of the month there is an VOICE IRC business meeting. Not everybody can always be present. To organize the VOICE elections we had to delay some things so it would be possible to conduct an IRC meeting.
In my view we should scrap the IRC business meetings and replace it with a mailing that only VOICE members can post to. Then you no longer have the time zone problem. When a posting is done this posting can be added to a webbased system. This way none members can read it. The 2 Saturdays that are free I want to turn into speak up slots. The two other SpeakUp slots for technical support.
People who prefer a different system please send a text to firstname.lastname@example.org with the proposal how the system should work and I will add this to this discussion document. So far people have indicated they want to keep 1 meeting a month. Also people prefer to have a webforum.